Niddah 45b

נדה מ״ה ע״ב

Learn Niddah 45b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The ages for a child's נדרים and הקדש, who matures first, and the status of the middle year

Overview

This amud opens with the last line of the previous discussion: a young יבם completes the marriage when he grows up, and can then give a גט. A new משנה then sets three stages for a child's vows. Before a certain age, a child's vows and הקדש mean nothing. In a middle year, we check whether the child understands. After that year, the vows always count. A girl reaches each stage one year before a boy. The גמרא explains why every clause of the משנה is needed. A ברייתא then shows the משנה follows רבי, while רבי שמעון בן אלעזר holds that boys mature first, and the גמרא gives each side's reason. Finally, the גמרא asks how to treat a child who shows signs of maturity during the middle year, for punishments. רב and רבי חנינא say it is like before the time, and רבי יוחנן and רבי יהושע בן לוי say it is like after the time. רב המנונא challenges the second view from the משנה, and the discussion of his proof continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (28)

1. ConclusionWhen he grows up, he completes the marriage and may give a divorce
2. StatementA girl's vows: checked at eleven, binding at twelve
3. StatementA boy's vows: checked at twelve, binding at thirteen
4. StatementBefore the checking age, vows mean nothing even if the child understands
5. StatementAfter the full age, vows count even if the child says they don't understand
6. QuestionWhy say that vows stand at twelve and a day?
7. ResponseWithout it, we might keep checking forever
8. QuestionWhy say we check through the whole twelfth year?
9. ResponseWithout it, we might stop after thirty days
10. ChallengeThen why mention eleven and a day at all?
11. ResolutionEven a very sharp girl is not checked before eleven
12. ChallengeWhy teach 'before this time' and 'after this time'?
13. ResolutionWe don't rely on what the child says
14. Statementרבי and רבי שמעון בן אלעזר disagree: who matures first?
15. Statementרבי's source: 'ויבן' means extra understanding
16. QuestionWhat does the other view do with this פסוק?
17. Response'ויבן' means He braided חוה's hair
18. QuestionWhat is the reasoning of רבי שמעון בן אלעזר?
19. ResponseBoys learn in their teacher's house, so cleverness comes first
20. QuestionDoes the in-between year count as before or after the time?
21. QuestionWhich law is this question about? Not vows
22. ResponseThe question is about punishments
23. StatementA disagreement: before the time or after the time
24. StatementA memory aid for who said what
25. ChallengeA challenge from the end of the משנה
26. Rejectionרבא answers from the start of the משנה
27. RejectionThe גמרא says רבא misunderstood רב המנונא
28. Rejectionרב המנונא's proof comes from the plain words of the משנה