Gemara Clarity

Pesachim 69a

פסחים ס״ט ע״א

Learn Pesachim 69a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Pesachim 69a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

מכשירי מצוה on שבת for the פסח: רבי אליעזר and רבי עקיבא, the הזאה dispute, and the rule that preparations override שבת only for someone already fit

Overview

This amud continues the argument between רבי אליעזר and רבי עקיבא about whether preparations for the קרבן פסח (מכשירי מצוה) override שבת. רבי אליעזר argues that if preparations after the שחיטה override שבת, preparations before it should too. רבי עקיבא answers that after the שחיטה, שבת has already been set aside, while before it, it has not. Next comes a ברייתא where רבי עקיבא uses הזאה as proof, a rule he says he learned from רבי אליעזר himself. עולא's attempt to explain the contradiction (תרומה versus פסח) is rejected. The גמרא concludes that רבי אליעזר forgot his own teaching and רבי עקיבא respectfully tried to remind him. רבה explains that הזאה is forbidden as a safeguard against carrying in רשות הרבים. The answer to why רבי אליעזר does not permit it anyway is that מכשירי מצוה override שבת only for someone already fit for the מצוה. רבה and רבא apply this to heating water for מילה, and אביי challenges it from the ערל who gets כרת. רבה begins his answer, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר,

And Rabbi Eliezer (how does he answer this?)

שְׁבוּת דְּמִצְוָה עֲדִיף לֵיהּ.

A rabbinic prohibition for a מצוה is preferable to him.

תַּנְיָא אָמַר רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר:

It was taught: Rabbi Eliezer said:

וּמָה לִי אִם דָּחוּ

Consider: if they override

The steps (27)

  1. Resolutionרבי אליעזר holds a מצוה-related rabbinic prohibition can be set aside
  2. Statementרבי אליעזר's argument from preparations after the slaughter
  3. Rejectionרבי עקיבא: after the slaughter, Shabbat is already overridden
  4. Rejectionרבי עקיבא's second reason: the offering might turn out invalid
  5. ChallengeIf so, the slaughter itself should be forbidden
  6. ResolutionThe order was reversed: the second reason was said first and refuted
  7. StatementThe משנה's line: רבי עקיבא brings proof from sprinkling
  8. Statementרבי אליעזר's sharp reply to רבי עקיבא
  9. Proofרבי עקיבא: I learned this rule from you
  10. ChallengeWhy did רבי אליעזר go back on his own teaching?
  11. Resolutionעולא: רבי אליעזר taught about sprinkling for תרומה
  12. ResolutionThe misunderstanding: רבי עקיבא meant תרומה, רבי אליעזר heard פסח
  13. Challengeרבה: רבי עקיבא explicitly spoke about sprinkling on ערב פסח
  14. Conclusionעולא's answer is dropped: the teaching was about הזאה for the פסח
  15. ChallengeThe original problem returns: why did he argue with his own teaching?
  16. Resolutionרבי אליעזר forgot his teaching, and רבי עקיבא reminded him
  17. ChallengeWhy didn't רבי עקיבא just say it plainly?
  18. ResolutionIt would not have been respectful
  19. ChallengeWhy should הזאה be forbidden on שבת at all?
  20. Resolutionרבה: a safeguard against carrying in public
  21. ChallengeBut רבי אליעזר allows preparations for a מצוה on שבת
  22. ResolutionThe rule only applies when the person is already fit for the מצוה
  23. Statementרבה applies the rule to heating water for a ברית מילה
  24. ChallengeWhy would a healthy baby need hot water?
  25. ResolutionAll babies count as sick for circumcision
  26. ChallengeAn uncircumcised man is still punished with כרת
  27. Resolutionרבי אליעזר does not slaughter for a טמא שרץ