Gemara Clarity

Rosh Hashanah 15b

ראש השנה ט״ו ע״ב

Learn Rosh Hashanah 15b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Rosh Hashanah 15b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How the year of an אתרוג and other tree fruit is set for מעשר and שביעית, and ריש לקיש's challenge to רבי יוחנן about carobs

Overview

The גמרא fills in missing words in a ברייתא. אבטולמוס said an אתרוג follows its picking for מעשר but its forming (חנטה) for שביעית, and the חכמים at אושא voted that picking decides both. רבי יוחנן and ריש לקיש rule that a sixth-year אתרוג that went into שביעית stays sixth-year fruit, and רבין adds that this is true even if it grew from olive-size to loaf-size. A ברייתא then teaches that ט״ו בשבט divides the years for tree fruit, and רבי נחמיה limits this to trees that give two crops a year. For one-crop trees like carobs, he says picking decides, and רבי יוחנן reports that people followed רבי נחמיה for carobs. ריש לקיש challenges this from white figs, and רבי יוחנן stays silent. רבי אבא הכהן and רבי יוסי הכהן discuss which answers רבי יוחנן could have given; the first two are rejected, and the third is not. So רבי אבא הכהן wonders whether רבי יוחנן's silence meant he accepted the question or thought it did not deserve an answer.

Opening lines

חַסּוֹרֵי מִיחַסְּרָא

It is missing words

וְהָכִי קָתָנֵי:

and this is what it teaches:

אֶתְרוֹג — אַחַר לְקִיטָתוֹ לְמַעֲשֵׂר

An etrog follows its picking for tithes

וְאַחַר חֲנָטָה לִשְׁבִיעִית.

and follows its forming for the Sabbatical Year.

The steps (19)

  1. ResolutionThe ברייתא is missing words: אבטולמוס splits מעשר and שביעית
  2. StatementThe vote at אושא: picking decides both
  3. StatementA sixth-year אתרוג picked in שביעית stays sixth-year fruit
  4. Statementרבין: even if it grew from olive-size to loaf-size
  5. Statementט״ו בשבט divides the years for tree fruit
  6. Statementרבי נחמיה limits the rule to trees with two crops
  7. ChallengeCan a tree really have 'broods'?
  8. ResolutionRead it as 'like two broods'
  9. StatementTrees with one crop a year go with the coming year
  10. StatementPeople followed רבי נחמיה for carobs
  11. Challengeריש לקיש challenges from white figs
  12. ResolutionThe answer רבי יוחנן could have given
  13. RejectionWhy the 'משנה follows the רבנן' answer would not work
  14. ChallengeSuggestion: רבי יוחנן was only describing custom
  15. RejectionCustom does not override a prohibition
  16. ChallengeSuggestion: carob tithes are rabbinic, while שביעית is from the Torah
  17. Statementרבי אבא הכהן wonders whether ריש לקיש really asked this
  18. ChallengeBut he clearly did ask it
  19. ResolutionThe real doubt: did רבי יוחנן accept the question?