Gemara Clarity

Rosh Hashanah 3b

ראש השנה ג׳ ע״ב

Learn Rosh Hashanah 3b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Rosh Hashanah 3b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Counting the years of non-Jewish kings from תשרי, and the special case of כורש/דריוש

Overview

The גמרא is proving that the years of a non-Jewish king are counted from תשרי, using two dates in ספר נחמיה. Both dates are called 'the twentieth year' of ארתחשסתא, one in כסלו and one in ניסן. רב פפא uses a גזירה שוה to show that both dates count the same king's reign. A ברייתא then shows that the כסלו event came first, so the year cannot have started in ניסן. רב יוסף challenges the rule from ספר חגי, where a date in תשרי is still 'the second year' of דריוש. רבי אבהו answers that כורש was a worthy king, so his years were counted from ניסן like the kings of ישראל. רב יוסף objects that the dates in ספר עזרא do not fit this, and that כורש is not דריוש. A ברייתא explains that כורש, דריוש and ארתחשסתא are one king, and רבי יצחק answers that he was counted from ניסן before he became corrupt and from תשרי afterward. רב כהנא begins to challenge whether he ever became corrupt, and his verse comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

לְמִנְיָנָא אַחֲרִינָא הוּא?

Is it [perhaps] according to another count?

אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא:

Rav Pappa said:

״שְׁנַת עֶשְׂרִים״ ״שְׁנַת עֶשְׂרִים״ — לִגְזֵירָה שָׁוָה:

'The twentieth year' [here], 'the twentieth year' [there]: for a verbal analogy.

מָה הָתָם לְאַרְתַּחְשַׁסְתְּא,

Just as there it is of Artaxerxes,

The steps (14)

  1. ChallengeMaybe the כסלו date uses a different count
  2. Resolutionרב פפא links the two verses with a verbal analogy
  3. ChallengeMaybe the ניסן event came first
  4. ResolutionA ברייתא shows the כסלו event came first
  5. ProofThe ברייתא quotes the כסלו verses
  6. Proofנחמיה repeats the news to the king in ניסן
  7. Challengeרב יוסף challenges with dates from חגי
  8. Resolutionכורש was a worthy king, so his years were counted from ניסן
  9. Challengeרב יוסף's first objection: the dates in ספר עזרא
  10. ChallengeSecond objection: כורש is not דריוש
  11. ResolutionA ברייתא: כורש, דריוש and ארתחשסתא are one king
  12. ChallengeThe first objection still stands
  13. Resolutionרבי יצחק: before and after the king became corrupt
  14. Challengeרב כהנא asks: did he really become corrupt?