Gemara Clarity

Sanhedrin 30b

סנהדרין ל׳ ע״ב

Learn Sanhedrin 30b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Sanhedrin 30b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Must עדים see and testify together? The סמיכה of רבי יוסי ברבי חנינא, the הלכה of רבי יהושע בן קרחה, combining loan and admission testimony, and contradictions in בדיקות.

Overview

The גמרא gives one more way to explain the מחלוקת between the תנא קמא and רבי נתן: everyone agrees the עדים must see the event together, and they argue only about whether they must also testify together. Then comes the story of how רבי יוסי ברבי חנינא received סמיכה from רבי יוחנן, and רבי זירא's lesson that a great man's סמיכה is not taken back. Next the גמרא brings different reports of whether the הלכה follows רבי יהושע בן קרחה for land and for movable property. Along the way it explains a ברייתא about the signs of adulthood. רב's rule about combining testimony of loans and admissions leads to a back-and-forth between רב נחמן בר יצחק and רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע, which ends with רב הונא's answer being knocked down. The נהרדעי then say that every combination joins together, following רבי יהושע בן קרחה. Finally, רב יהודה rules that contradictions in the detail questions do not ruin testimony in money cases. רבא limits this to side details, and the גמרא challenges it from רב חסדא's ruling about murder cases.

Opening lines

וּדְכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא כְּרַבָּנַן

And everyone holds like the Rabbis

דִּפְלִיגִי עֲלֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן קׇרְחָה,

who disagree with Rabbi Yehoshua ben Korcha,

וְהָכָא בְּאַקּוֹשֵׁי הַגָּדָה לִרְאִיָּה קָא מִיפַּלְגִי.

and here they disagree about comparing the testimony to the seeing.

מָר סָבַר: מַקְּשִׁינַן הַגָּדָה לִרְאִיָּה,

One Sage holds: we compare the testimony to the seeing,

The steps (31)

  1. ResolutionBoth sides agree on seeing together, but argue about testifying together
  2. StatementStory: trying to ordain רבי יוסי ברבי חנינא
  3. Questionרבי יוחנן asks about the הלכה of רבי יהושע בן קרחה
  4. StatementOrdination first, then the answer
  5. Responseרבי יהושע בן קרחה agrees with רבי נתן
  6. Challengeרבי יוחנן finds the answer obvious
  7. StatementThe סמיכה is not taken back
  8. Conclusionרבי זירא's lesson: a great person's סמיכה stays
  9. Statementרב: the הלכה follows רבי יהושע בן קרחה in all cases
  10. Statementעולא: the הלכה follows רבי יהושע בן קרחה only for land
  11. Challengeאביי asks why עולא said 'הלכה' if there is no argument about land
  12. ProofA second source: the חכמים agree in several kinds of testimony
  13. ResolutionAnswer: this is simply one אמורא against another
  14. QuestionWhat does 'the boy and the girl' mean?
  15. RejectionFirst explanation rejected: one hair per witness is half a matter and half a testimony
  16. ResponseEach witness saw two hairs in a different place
  17. Statementרב יוסף in the name of עולא: the הלכה follows רבי יהושע בן קרחה for land and movables
  18. StatementThe רבנן of מחוזא in the name of רב: land only, not movables
  19. Proofרב is consistent: when admissions and loans combine
  20. ChallengeWhy should admissions combine if loans don't?
  21. ResolutionThe borrower told the second witness it was the same מנה
  22. ChallengeBut the first witness still doesn't know
  23. ResolutionThe borrower went back and told the first witness too
  24. Conclusionרב נחמן בר יצחק accepts the answer
  25. Challengeרב הונא reveals his answer was already knocked down
  26. ConclusionBuilding palm trees and knocking them down
  27. Statementנהרדעי: all combinations of testimony join together
  28. ResponseWhose view is this? רבי יהושע בן קרחה
  29. StatementContradiction in detail questions is fine in money cases
  30. Statementרבא limits רב יהודה's ruling to side details
  31. ChallengeChallenge from רב חסדא: clothing color doesn't matter even in murder cases