Sanhedrin 85a

סנהדרין פ״ה ע״א

Learn Sanhedrin 85a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Whether a son may be the court's agent to strike or curse his father, and why a son who strikes a condemned father is חייב while a stranger is פטור

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier argument: רבי שמעון holds that a person is פטור for a מלאכה שאינה צריכה לגופה. Then a new topic begins. The חכמים ask רב ששת whether a son may be the agent of בית דין to strike or curse his father. רב ששת says yes, because כבוד שמים comes first. A ברייתא with a קל וחומר seems to challenge him, but the גמרא reads it as the source for the general ban on hitting anyone. Next comes a ברייתא about a man going out to be executed: his son who hits or curses him is חייב, while a stranger is פטור. רב ששת sets this in a case where the father walks willingly. The גמרא then tries several reasons for why the stranger is פטור: the condemned man counts as a גברא קטילא, the blow was under a פרוטה, or פטור means only free from money. When these fail, it learns from the פסוק 'וְנָשִׂיא בְעַמְּךָ לֹא תָאֹר' that only one who acts like 'your people' is protected, and later רב מרי reads it as one who endures among your people. The amud ends by asking why, then, the son is not פטור too, and the answer comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (24)

1. Challengeרבי שמעון exempts labor not needed for its own sake
2. QuestionMay a son be the court's agent to strike or curse his father?
3. ResponseThe honor of Heaven comes first, so a son may be the agent
4. ChallengeA ברייתא's קל וחומר about who must not strike
5. ChallengeReading the ברייתא as forbidding a son even when striking is a מצוה
6. ResolutionThe ברייתא contrasts מצוה and non-מצוה situations, not son and stranger
7. ResolutionRereading the ברייתא as a קל וחומר
8. ChallengeA new challenge: a son who strikes his father on the way to execution
9. Resolutionרב ששת: the father is walking willingly
10. ChallengeThen a stranger should be liable too
11. ResolutionA condemned man counts as a dead man
12. Challengeרב ששת's own case of shaming a sleeping man
13. ResolutionThe blow was worth less than a פרוטה
14. Challengeרבי יוחנן: even a tiny blow gets lashes
15. ResolutionExempt only from paying money
16. ChallengeThe son's 'liable' cannot mean money, so the stranger's 'exempt' cannot either
17. ResolutionA new reason: the פסוק protects only someone acting like 'your people'
18. ChallengeThe פסוק only talks about cursing, so what about hitting?
19. ResolutionHitting is compared to cursing
20. ChallengeThen the son should be פטור too
21. ResolutionThe condemned man did תשובה
22. ChallengeIf he did תשובה, a stranger should be חייב too
23. Resolutionרב מרי: the protection is only for someone who will go on living among the people
24. ChallengeThen the son should be פטור too