Gemara Clarity

Shevuos 8b

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Shevuot 8b

Learn Shevuos 8b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Shevuos 8b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How far each of the two goats of יום הכפורים reaches: when the inner goat suspends punishment, why it does not fully atone, and why neither goat can take over the other's atonement

Overview

This amud continues the discussion of the inner goat of יום הכפורים (שעיר הנעשה בפנים). The ברייתא asks for a source that the goat is תולה for someone who knew at the beginning but not at the end. The גמרא explains why this needed a source. Comparing חטאים to פשעים could be read strictly, so that the goat covers only sins that can never bring a קרבן. The verse "לכל חטאתם" shows that the inner goat is for people who will later owe a חטאת. The same wording shows the goat only suspends the punishment and does not fully atone. רבא explains that this suspension protects the person from יסורין. The גמרא then turns to the משנה's case of awareness only at the end. It asks whether either goat could take over the other's job, and answers from the words "אחת" and "אחת בשנה". That last answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

נִיתְלֵי לֵיהּ,

[You might think] it should suspend [the punishment] for him,

קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

[so the verse] teaches us [that it does not].

אָמַר מָר:

The Master said:

מִנַּיִן שֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהּ יְדִיעָה בַּתְּחִלָּה

From where [do we know] that where there was awareness at the beginning

The steps (17)

  1. ConclusionThe verse teaches that the goat does not even suspend punishment
  2. StatementThe ברייתא asks for a source that the goat suspends punishment
  3. QuestionWhy does this need a source at all?
  4. ResponseThe comparison to פשעים could be made stricter
  5. ChallengeA possible reply: the other case already has atonement
  6. ResolutionThe verse stops us from swapping the two goats
  7. ChallengeWhy not give full atonement?
  8. ResolutionThe wording 'for all their sins' means only suspension
  9. QuestionWhat good is suspending the punishment?
  10. Responseרבי זירא: if he dies, he dies without sin
  11. Rejectionרבא: death itself already cleanses
  12. Responseרבא: the goat protects him from suffering
  13. StatementThe משנה's next case: awareness only at the end
  14. ChallengeLet the inner goat also cover the outer goat's cases
  15. ResolutionThe word 'once' limits a goat to one atonement
  16. ChallengeLet the outer goat also cover the inner goat's cases
  17. ResolutionThe words 'once a year' limit each atonement