Gemara Clarity

Succah 32b

סוכה ל״ב ע״ב

Sukkah 32b

Learn Succah 32b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Succah 32b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Iron Mountain palms, minimum lengths of the ארבעה מינים, and the identity and עבות requirement of the הדס

Overview

The amud opens with a second version of אביי's teaching about the לולב from צִינֵּי הַר הַבַּרְזֶל. A palm whose leaves reach one another is כשר, and one with bare gaps is פסול. An aggadic tradition places these palms at the entrance to גיהנם. The גמרא then sets the minimum lengths: שמואל says three טפחים for the הדס and ערבה and four for the לולב, and רבי יוחנן adds that the spine itself must rise one טפח above the הדס. רבי טרפון's 'אמה of five טפחים' is explained two ways, by רב דימי and by רבין. The rule that a rounded number is assumed only לחומרא shows that שמואל follows רבין's smaller measure. A new משנה lists what makes a הדס פסול, and the גמרא proves from the פסוק ״עֲנַף עֵץ עָבוֹת״ that the plant is the הדס, ruling out the olive tree, the דולבא and the הירדוף. It then defines עבות as three leaves per base, against רב כהנא's lenient two-and-one. The amud ends with אביי beginning to answer how a הדס that lost most of its leaves can still be עבות, and his answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְאִיכָּא דְּרָמֵי לַיהּ מִירְמֵא:

And there are those who raise it as a contradiction:

תְּנַן צִינֵּי הַר הַבַּרְזֶל — כָּשֵׁר,

We learned in the Mishnah: palms of the Iron Mountain are fit,

וְהָתַנְיָא: פְּסוּלָה!

But isn't it taught in a baraita: it is unfit!

אָמַר אַבָּיֵי, לָא קַשְׁיָא:

Abaye said: It is not difficult:

The steps (39)

  1. ChallengeA contradiction about the Iron Mountain palms
  2. Resolutionאביי: it depends on whether the leaves overlap
  3. StatementWhere the Iron Mountain palms are: the entrance of גיהנם
  4. Statementשמואל: minimum lengths of the four species
  5. Statementרבי יוחנן: the spine must stick out
  6. ChallengeChallenge from the משנה: three טפחים seems enough for a לולב
  7. ResolutionReading the משנה as three טפחים plus an extra טפח for shaking
  8. ProofAttempted proof from a ברייתא that the four טפחים include the leaves
  9. RejectionRejecting the proof: the four טפחים may exclude the leaves
  10. StatementThe ברייתא in full: רבי טרפון's five-טפח אמה
  11. Challengeרבא objects that רבי טרפון's measure is impossible in practice
  12. Resolutionרב דימי: the cubit is divided into five larger handbreadths
  13. Challengeשמואל seems to contradict himself
  14. Resolutionשמואל was only approximating
  15. RejectionRounding is acceptable only when it leads to stricter practice
  16. Resolutionרבין: the אמה is divided into six smaller טפחים
  17. Challengeשמואל still seems to contradict himself
  18. ResolutionHere שמואל rounded up, which is allowed
  19. StatementThings that make a myrtle unfit
  20. StatementFixing the berries, but not on the festival
  21. StatementThe verse's 'dense tree' is the myrtle
  22. ChallengeMaybe it means the olive tree
  23. ResolutionThe olive tree is not 'dense' in the right way
  24. ChallengeMaybe it means the plane tree
  25. ResolutionThe plane tree's leaves do not cover its wood
  26. ChallengeMaybe it means the oleander
  27. Resolutionאביי: the תורה's ways are pleasant
  28. Resolutionרבא: love truth and peace
  29. ConclusionThe braided, chain-like plant is the myrtle
  30. StatementA second sign: wood and fruit taste the same
  31. StatementOnly a thickly leaved myrtle is valid
  32. QuestionWhat counts as thick?
  33. Responseרב יהודה: three leaves from each base
  34. Responseרב כהנא: even two plus one
  35. Statementרב אחא seeks out the two-and-one myrtle
  36. Rejectionמר בר אמימר: that is a הדס שוטה
  37. StatementMost leaves fell off, but it is still thick
  38. ChallengeThe ברייתא seems to contradict itself
  39. Resolutionאביי begins: such a case can exist