Succah 33b

סוכה ל״ג ע״ב

Sukkah 33b

Learn Succah 33b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Black, red, and green berries on the הדס; דחוי מעיקרא and נראה ונדחה; fixing the הדס and the לולב binding on יום טוב; and the laws of the ערבה

Overview

This amud finishes רבא's objection to an early version of רב חסדא's teaching, and then gives the corrected version. In it, רב, quoted by רב חסדא, says that berries outnumbering the leaves disqualify a הדס only when they are black, since green berries blend in. רב פפא adds that red berries count like black, citing רבי חנינא on blood colors. The גמרא then studies the משנה's rulings that reducing the berries makes the הדס fit, and that one may not reduce them on יום טוב. From the timing of when the berries turned black, it proves that דחוי מעיקרא לא הוי דחוי. It does not prove that נראה ונדחה can become fit again. A ברייתא records רבי אליעזר ברבי שמעון permitting the berries to be picked on יום טוב, and the גמרא defends him using דבר שאין מתכוין and פסיק רישיה. Next comes a ברייתא about rewrapping a loosened לולב binding on יום טוב like a vegetable bundle, explained according to רבי יהודה's view that a bow is a real knot. Finally, a new משנה lists which ערבות are פסולה and which are כשרה, and ברייתות explain 'ערבי נחל' and teach that willows from any place are valid.

Opening lines

The steps (33)

1. ChallengeBerries in several spots make the branch look speckled
2. ResolutionCorrecting what was actually said: back to the משנה's case
3. StatementOnly black berries disqualify; green berries are fine
4. StatementRed berries count like black berries
5. ProofProof from רבי חנינא: black blood is really red
6. StatementNew topic in the משנה: reducing the berries makes it fit
7. QuestionWhen were the berries reduced?
8. RejectionBefore tying the לולב? Too obvious to need saying
9. ResponseAfter tying the לולב? Then it was unfit from the start
10. ProofSo something rejected from the start is not permanently rejected
11. RejectionTying the bundle is only a designation, so the proof falls away
12. StatementThe משנה: do not reduce the berries on the festival
13. QuestionWhat if he went ahead and picked them?
14. ResponseIt is fit
15. QuestionWhen did the berries turn black?
16. ProofIf they were black from yesterday, this proves early rejection is not permanent
17. ProofIf they turned black on the festival, it proves a rejected item can become fit again
18. RejectionNo: they were black from before, so only the first point is proven
19. StatementA ברייתא: may one remove the extra berries on יום טוב?
20. ChallengeBut removing the berries fixes a usable item on יום טוב
21. Resolutionרב אשי: he picked them to eat, and his father permits an unintended result
22. ChallengeBut רבי שמעון agrees when the result is certain
23. ResolutionThe case is where he has another kosher הדס
24. StatementA loosened לולב binding may be re-wrapped like a vegetable bundle
25. ChallengeWhy not just tie a bow?
26. ResolutionThe ברייתא follows רבי יהודה, who treats a bow as a real knot
27. ChallengeBut רבי יהודה requires a proper binding
28. ResolutionThis תנא agrees with רבי יהודה on one point only
29. StatementThe משנה lists which ערבות are פסולה and which are כשרה
30. Statement'ערבי נחל' means willows that grow by a brook
31. StatementSecond reading: a willow whose leaf is long like a brook
32. QuestionAre willows not growing by a brook also valid?
33. ResponseWillows from any place are valid