Zevachim 87a

זבחים פ״ז ע״א

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Topic

When limbs count as consumed, לינה on top of the מזבח, and whether כלי שרת make פסולין holy

Overview

This amud opens in the middle of a מחלוקת between רבה and רב חסדא about limbs of a קרבן that were off the מזבח at חצות. The question is which later moment makes them count as consumed (עיכול). רב יוסף challenges both of them: maybe חצות makes the limbs consumed wherever they are. Word comes from ארץ ישראל that the הלכה follows him, and two more sources support this. So אביי explains that רבה and רב חסדא only argue about fatty limbs. Next, רבא asks רבה whether לינה disqualifies limbs that spend the night on top of the מזבח and later come down. רבה says there is no לינה there, and the גמרא proves that רבא did not accept this. Finally the גמרא turns to the משנה's rule that the מזבח, the כבש and כלי שרת make things holy, bringing a פסוק for each. ריש לקיש then asks רבי יוחנן whether פסולין placed in כלי שרת may be offered on the מזבח לכתחילה. רבי יוחנן says a משנה answers this, and that משנה is quoted on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (21)

1. StatementSecond midnight or dawn makes the limbs consumed
2. QuestionAsking for רב חסדא's reason
3. ResponseA קל וחומר from midnight to dawn
4. StatementSecond case: limbs that missed both midnight and dawn
5. Challengeרב יוסף: maybe midnight works wherever the limbs are
6. ConclusionThe הלכה follows רב יוסף
7. ProofSupport for רב יוסף from רבי חייא בר אבא and בר קפרא
8. ChallengeThen what do רבה and רב חסדא argue about?
9. ResolutionThey argue about fatty limbs
10. QuestionDoes being left overnight disqualify limbs on top of the altar?
11. ChallengeIf they never came down, the answer is obvious
12. QuestionIs the altar top like the Table or like the floor?
13. Responseרבה answers: no overnight problem on top of the altar
14. QuestionDid רבא accept רבה's answer?
15. ProofProof from a later argument between רבה and רבא
16. ConclusionConclusion: רבא did not accept it
17. StatementSources that the altar, ramp and vessels make things holy
18. QuestionDo service vessels make disqualified items holy?
19. Responseרבי יוחנן: you already learned it in the משנה
20. Rejectionריש לקיש clarifies: he is asking about offering them from the start
21. Responseרבי יוחנן says this too is taught in a משנה