Avodah Zarah 24a

עבודה זרה כ״ד ע״א

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Topic

רבי אליעזר's ban on taking a פרה אדומה and other קרבנות from non-Jews: the story of דמא בן נתינה, the worry about רביעה, and challenges from פסוקים

Overview

רבי אליעזר holds that a פרה אדומה may not be bought from a non-Jew. The גמרא tests this against the story of דמא בן נתינה, who gave up a fortune rather than wake his father. In the end of that story the Sages buy a red heifer from him, and the גמרא answers that the purchase went through Jewish merchants. A ברייתא shows that רבי אליעזר also worries that someone did רביעה with the animal. The גמרא then works out how far back the guarding had to go: from the heifer's conception, then from its mother's conception, but not as far as the grandmother. It also explains how they knew to guard the calf (a red cup during mating, and a herd known for red calves). Next, רבי אמי and רבי יצחק נפחא report that רבי אליעזר disqualified all קרבנות from non-Jews. They answer the פסוק about the flocks of קדר by saying the nations will convert in the future, proven from צפניה, and the גמרא gives a second version of this discussion. Finally, the גמרא challenges the rule from משה's request to פרעה and from יתרו's offerings, answering that both were before מתן תורה, and begins a question that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (37)

1. Challengeדמא gives up a fortune to honor his father
2. ResolutionOnyx stones break off the list
3. Challenge"And stones to be set" links back
4. ChallengeThe פרה אדומה from דמא's herd
5. ResolutionBought through Jewish merchants
6. ChallengeIsn't רבי אליעזר also worried about bestiality?
7. Resolutionרבי אליעזר holds both reasons
8. ChallengeGuarding from birth isn't enough: what about the pregnant mother?
9. ResolutionRead it as 'guarded from conception'
10. ChallengeWhat about the mother even before conception?
11. ChallengeThe challenge depends on which version of רב נחמן we follow
12. ResolutionThe Jews guarded the mother from when she was formed
13. ChallengeWhat about the grandmother?
14. ResolutionWe do not worry that far back
15. QuestionHow did they know which calf to guard?
16. Responseרב כהנא: a red cup during mating
17. ChallengeIf it is so easy, why is it so expensive?
18. ResolutionTwo hairs can ruin it
19. ChallengeWhy use the gentile's cows?
20. ResolutionHis herd was known for red calves
21. Statementרבי אליעזר disqualifies all offerings from gentiles
22. ChallengeThe colleagues challenge from קדר's flocks
23. ResolutionIn the future they will all be converts
24. Proofרב יוסף's פסוק that the nations will convert
25. ChallengeMaybe they only leave עבודה זרה
26. ResolutionServing Him together means full acceptance
27. Statementרב זביד's version: both אמוראים report רבי אליעזר's ruling
28. ChallengeBoth report the colleagues' challenge from the פסוק of צאן קדר
29. Resolutionרבי אליעזר: in the future they will all be converts
30. ProofThe source that the nations will convert
31. Challengeרב יוסף: maybe they only give up idols
32. Resolutionאביי: "to serve Him" means full service
33. ChallengeChallenge from משה asking פרעה for offerings
34. ResolutionBefore מתן תורה it was different
35. ChallengeChallenge from יתרו's offerings
36. Resolutionיתרו also came before מתן תורה
37. ChallengeBut what about the opinion that יתרו came after מתן תורה?