Avodah Zarah 47a
עבודה זרה מ״ז ע״א
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Topic
Does worshipping a stalk of wheat forbid its flour for the altar? Comparing it to a pregnant animal used for bestiality, then rejecting that comparison. A new question follows: may a לולב be taken from a worshipped palm tree?
Overview
The amud opens by finishing a comparison: wheat stalks someone bowed to are like an animal that was already pregnant when it was used for bestiality, so the flour should be forbidden for מנחות. The גמרא rejects this, because a fetus stays an animal while wheat turns into flour, a new form. ריש לקיש then asks whether a לולב from a worshipped palm tree may be used for the מצוה. רב דימי reports the question differently, as asking whether something pushed away from a מצוה stays pushed away. A proof from covering blood (אין דיחוי אצל מצות) is rejected, and the question ends in תיקו. רב פפא asks whether parts of a worshipped animal may be used for תכלת or for the instruments of the מקדש. That question also ends in תיקו, according to the view that the main song is with the mouth. רבה asks whether water from a privately owned spring someone bowed to may be used for נסכים. Finally, a new משנה teaches that a fallen wall next to a house of עבודה זרה may not be rebuilt in place, and it begins the case of a jointly owned wall.
Opening lines
אֲבָל עִיבְּרוּ וּלְבַסּוֹף נִרְבְּעוּ —
But if they became pregnant and later were used for bestiality,
דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל אֲסוּרִין,
all agree they (the offspring) are forbidden,
וְהָכָא נָמֵי
and here too,
כְּעִיבְּרוּ וּלְבַסּוֹף נִרְבְּעוּ דָּמֵי.
it is like 'they became pregnant and later were used for bestiality.'
The steps (26)
- ProofPregnant first, then bestiality: everyone forbids, and wheat is the same
- ProofA second version of the same comparison
- RejectionThe comparison fails: a fetus stays an animal, but wheat becomes flour
- Questionריש לקיש asks about a לולב from a worshipped palm tree
- QuestionNarrowing the question to a tree worshipped after planting
- QuestionAccording to the רבנן, is the לולב too disgusting for a מצוה?
- Questionרב דימי's version: does once-unfit mean always unfit?
- ProofTrying to answer from covering the blood
- Proofרבי יוחנן explains the wind case
- ChallengeWhy must he cover the blood again once it was already pushed away?
- Proofרב פפא: there is no pushing away with מצות
- RejectionThe question was about רב פפא's rule itself
- ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
- QuestionCan wool from a worshipped animal be used for תכלת?
- ChallengeThis question was already asked by others
- ResolutionHe asked it because of other uses of the animal
- ResponseIf instruments are the main song, it is surely forbidden
- QuestionThe question only works if the main song is with the mouth
- ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
- QuestionWater from a spring someone bowed to
- ChallengeWhat exactly is רבה unsure about?
- ResolutionHe bowed to the water, but which water?
- ChallengeBut public water cannot become forbidden
- ResolutionA spring coming up on private land
- StatementA fallen wall next to a house of idol worship
- StatementOpening the case of a shared wall