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Avodah Zarah 68a

עבודה זרה ס״ח ע״א

Learn Avodah Zarah 68a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

נותן טעם לפגם: does a forbidden food that spoils a dish forbid it? The amud covers the מחלוקת between רבי מאיר and רבי שמעון, and whether עולא or רבי יוחנן is right about which case they argue in.

Overview

The amud opens at the end of רבי שמעון's proof from the פסוק about נבלה. Meat that is not fit even for a גר is not called נבלה, so a forbidden food that only spoils a dish does not forbid it. The גמרא explains how רבי מאיר reads the same פסוק, and how רבי שמעון answers him. עולא then says the two תנאים argue only when the forbidden food first improved the dish and later spoiled it. If it spoiled the dish from the start, everyone permits it. עולא defends this rule against רב חגא's ברייתא about vinegar in split beans. רבי יוחנן disagrees and says they argue even when the food spoils from the start, and the גמרא leaves the exact scope of his view as תיקו. רב עמרם finds a source about forbidden leaven falling into dough that was already leavened, which seems to support רבי יוחנן. רבי זירא rejects that proof, because dough is different. The גמרא brings a new ברייתא as another proof and begins to raise the same pushback, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

שֶׁאֵין רְאוּיָה לְגֵר —

[A carcass] that is not fit for a ger

אֵינָהּ קְרוּיָה נְבֵלָה.

is not called an unslaughtered carcass.

וְרַבִּי מֵאִיר,

And Rabbi Meir?

הָהוּא לְמַעוֹטֵי סְרוּחָה מֵעִיקָּרָא,

That [verse] is to exclude [meat] rancid from the outset.

The steps (15)

  1. Statementרבי שמעון's source: unfit meat is not called נבלה
  2. ResolutionHow רבי מאיר uses the same verse
  3. Resolutionרבי שמעון: rancid-from-the-start meat needs no verse
  4. Statementעולא limits the dispute
  5. Challengeרב חגא challenges עולא from wine in lentils
  6. Resolutionעולא defends himself: the vinegar was poured into cold beans and then heated
  7. Statementרבי יוחנן: the argument is about food that spoils from the start
  8. QuestionHow far does רבי יוחנן's view go? Left unresolved
  9. Questionרב עמרם wonders why the משנה doesn't teach רבי יוחנן's case
  10. ProofRav Amram finds a source about extra leaven in dough
  11. ProofThe point: here it spoiled from the start, and they still argue
  12. Rejectionרבי זירא: dough is a special case
  13. ProofA new ברייתא about two kinds of leaven in dough
  14. ProofThe ברייתא shows an argument even when the taste was spoiled from the start
  15. RejectionExpecting the same pushback as before