Avodah Zarah 68b

עבודה זרה ס״ח ע״ב

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Topic

Forbidden items that spoil a food's taste (נותן טעם לפגם): the argument of רבי שמעון and the חכמים, רב's ruling on a mouse in beer, and רבא's final הלכה.

Overview

The גמרא proves from the last clause of a ברייתא (wine into lentils, vinegar into split beans) that רבי שמעון and the חכמים argue even when the forbidden item spoiled the taste from the start. It rejects the idea that the case is 'improved first, then spoiled,' because the ברייתא's middle clause shows everyone forbids that case. Next it asks why the ברייתא needs its first clause. אביי answers that the first clause is there to show רבי שמעון's view: the חכמים say the forbidden leaven made the dough rise faster, while רבי שמעון says both leavens worked together. רבי שמעון does not let the two leavens combine to forbid, because he holds that even two forbidden items do not combine, as in the משנה of ערלה and כלאי הכרם. Then comes a story: רב forbade beer that a mouse fell into. רב ששת explains that a mouse is a חידוש, and he defends this against challenges from the laws of טומאה and from רב שימי. רבא rules that נותן טעם לפגם is permitted, but says he does not know whether רב disagreed with this or held that a mouse actually improves beer. The amud ends by opening a new question that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. ProofProof from the wine-and-lentils clause
2. ResolutionSuggested answer: improved first, then spoiled
3. RejectionRejecting the answer: everyone forbids 'improved first'
4. ConclusionConclusion: the argument is about spoiling from the start
5. QuestionWhy does the ברייתא need three clauses?
6. QuestionThe last and middle clauses each have a lesson
7. QuestionWhy is the first case needed?
8. Responseאביי: The first case is there for רבי שמעון
9. Responseרבי שמעון's reply: both leavens worked together
10. ChallengeShouldn't the two leavens combine and forbid the dough?
11. Resolutionרבי שמעון holds that even two forbidden items do not combine
12. ProofProof from the משנה about ערלה and כלאי הכרם
13. StatementA mouse fell into a barrel of beer and רב forbade it
14. QuestionDoes רב hold that a spoiling taste is forbidden?
15. Responseרב ששת: a mouse is a special case
16. ChallengeIf a mouse is so special, why is a dry one not טמא?
17. RejectionYour question would also apply to שכבת זרע
18. ResolutionThe פסוק itself limits טומאה
19. ChallengeIs a mouse really disgusting?
20. ResolutionField mouse versus city mouse
21. Conclusionרבא rules that a bad-tasting mixture is permitted
22. Questionרבא is unsure why רב forbade beer with a mouse in it
23. QuestionA new question is raised