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Avodah Zarah 8b

עבודה זרה ח׳ ע״ב

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Topic

A גוי's wedding feast, the holiday of קרטסים, and the history of Roman rule, the סנהדרין, and סמיכה

Overview

This amud finishes the rule about a גוי's wedding feast (הילולא). For 30 days after the wedding, every feast is forbidden. After that, until twelve months, a feast is forbidden only if he says it is for the wedding. The forbidden period begins when they start making beer for the wedding, and an אדם חשוב is stricter. Next the גמרא explains קרטסים, a Roman holiday marking the day רומי seized power. רב יוסף says רומי seized power twice. רב דימי then tells how רומי beat the Greeks by allying with ישראל, kept faith with ישראל for twenty-six years, and then turned on them. To prove those dates, the גמרא brings רבי יוסי's tradition about events before the חורבן, including the סנהדרין leaving its place forty years earlier. The גמרא concludes that this move ended דיני נפשות, not דיני קנסות, which רבי יהודה בן בבא kept alive by giving סמיכה at the cost of his life. The amud ends by starting a challenge to the 180-year figure, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

כֹּל תְּלָתִין יוֹמִין,

During all thirty days,

בֵּין אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא

whether he told him it is because of the wedding celebration

וּבֵין לָא אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא — אָסוּר,

or did not tell him it is because of the wedding celebration, it is forbidden.

מִכָּאן וְאֵילָךְ,

From then on,

The steps (32)

  1. StatementThe 30-day rule for a גוי's wedding feast
  2. QuestionUntil when does the wedding connection last?
  3. Responseרב פפא: twelve months
  4. QuestionWhen does the prohibition begin?
  5. ResponseFrom when they start preparing the barley
  6. ChallengeA story of a רב who refused after twelve months
  7. ResolutionAn important person is different
  8. QuestionWhat is קרטסים?
  9. Responseשמואל: the day Rome took power
  10. ChallengeA ברייתא lists them as two holidays
  11. Resolutionרב יוסף: Rome took power twice
  12. StatementRome partners with Israel to defeat the Greeks
  13. StatementRome proposes settling the dispute by judgment
  14. StatementThe chain of value rises up to the Torah scroll
  15. ConclusionRome wins power, then turns on Israel
  16. QuestionWhich verses did the Romans use, at first and later?
  17. ResponseFrom partners to masters: two verses about עשו and יעקב
  18. QuestionHow do we know about the twenty-six loyal years?
  19. StatementThe חכמים ask the sick רבי ישמעאל בר יוסי for his father's teachings
  20. ProofThree dates before the חורבן
  21. QuestionWhy does it matter that the סנהדרין moved?
  22. ResponseThey stopped judging דיני קנסות
  23. ChallengeBut רבי יהודה בן בבא kept דיני קנסות alive
  24. ChallengeWhy would they be forgotten? Just learn them!
  25. Resolutionרב meant that fines would have stopped being judged, because Rome banned ordination
  26. Statementרבי יהודה בן בבא secretly ordains five or six sages
  27. Statementרבי יהודה בן בבא sends his students away and is killed
  28. Resolutionרב נחמן בר יצחק: after the סנהדרין moved, capital cases stopped, not fines
  29. QuestionWhy did they stop judging capital cases?
  30. ResponseToo many murderers, so they moved away
  31. ProofA פסוק shows the place makes the judging possible
  32. ChallengeOnly 180 years of Roman rule? A teaching seems to say more