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Avodah Zarah 9a

עבודה זרה ט׳ ע״א

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Topic

Counting years: the kingdoms of the second בית המקדש, the scribes' count versus the count from the חורבן, and the world's six thousand years

Overview

This amud finishes רבי יוסי's ברייתא that lists the kingdoms that ruled while the second בית המקדש stood: פרס 34 years, יון 180, חשמונאי 103, and בית הורדוס 103. After that, years are counted from the חורבן. The גמרא notes that this puts the start of Roman involvement 206 years before the חורבן, while an earlier teaching said Rome ruled for 180. It answers that for the first 26 years Rome was a loyal ally and did not rule over Israel. רב פפא then gives a trick for linking two ways of counting years. A תנא counting from the חורבן adds 20 to the scribe's year to recover his exact count, and a scribe subtracts 20 from the תנא's count. Next, תנא דבי אליהו teaches that the world lasts six thousand years: two thousand empty, two thousand of תורה, and two thousand of ימות המשיח, some of which have already passed because of our sins. The גמרא shows that the תורה block starts with אברהם in חרן, not at מתן תורה, a gap of 448 years. Finally, רב פפא says that to recover the exact count of משיח years that have passed, one adds forty-eight to the scribe's year. His memory sign comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

מַלְכוּת פָּרַס בִּפְנֵי הַבַּיִת

The Persian kingdom, while the Temple stood:

שְׁלֹשִׁים וְאַרְבַּע שָׁנָה,

thirty-four years;

מַלְכוּת יָוָן בִּפְנֵי הַבַּיִת

the Greek kingdom, while the Temple stood:

מֵאָה וּשְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה,

one hundred and eighty years;

The steps (11)

  1. StatementHow long each kingdom ruled while the second בית המקדש stood
  2. Challenge206 years or 180 years?
  3. ResolutionRome was a loyal ally for the first 26 years
  4. StatementA תנא who lost count: ask a scribe and add twenty
  5. StatementA scribe who lost count: ask a תנא and subtract twenty
  6. StatementThe world's six thousand years in three blocks
  7. QuestionWhen do the two thousand years of תורה begin?
  8. RejectionIt cannot start at מתן תורה
  9. ResponseIt starts from the souls made in חרן
  10. ConclusionThe 448-year gap
  11. Statementרב פפא's trick for counting the lost years