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Bava Basra 145a

בבא בתרא קמ״ה ע״א

Bava Batra 145a

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Topic

The claim 'give me my husband', whether קידושין money and gifts are returned when a betrothal ends, and the rules of שושבינות gifts.

Overview

The גמרא asks why the one who received שושבינות gifts can't say 'give me my groomsman', the way a betrothed woman can say 'give me my husband'. רב יוסף answers that the seven days of rejoicing already took place, so the debt is already owed. The גמרא then asks whether the claim 'give me my husband' is a dispute between תנאים, using a ברייתא of רבי נתן and רבי יהודה הנשיא. It concludes that everyone accepts the claim. The real argument is whether קידושין money is given to be kept for good (לטיבועין). A second ברייתא with רבי מאיר, רבי יהודה and רבי יוסי is explained as the same argument, about a כהן's betrothed who was forced; רבי יוסי splits the money because he is unsure. The אמוראים then rule in practice: gifts come back but the קידושין money does not, unless she backs out. אמימר holds the קידושין money is never returned, so people won't think he may marry her sister, and the גמרא rejects רב אשי's answer to this. Finally the גמרא returns to the משנה and begins a ברייתא listing five rules about שושבינות, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

״תְּנוּ לִי בַּעְלִי וְאֶשְׂמַח עִמּוֹ״.

"Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him."

הָכָא נָמֵי, נֵימָא:

Here too, let him say:

״תְּנוּ לִי שׁוֹשְׁבִינִי וְאֶשְׂמַח עִמּוֹ״!

"Give me my groomsman and I will rejoice with him!"

אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף:

Rav Yosef said:

The steps (25)

  1. ChallengeWhy can't he say "Give me my groomsman"?
  2. Resolutionרב יוסף: the rejoicing already happened
  3. QuestionIs "Give me my husband" a dispute between תנאים?
  4. ChallengeThe two opinions sound the same
  5. ResponseMaybe they argue about "Give me my husband"
  6. ResponseFilling in the missing words of the ברייתא: רבי נתן's view
  7. ResponseFilling in the missing words: רבי יהודה הנשיא's view
  8. RejectionEveryone accepts her claim; the real dispute is whether קידושין money is meant to be kept
  9. ChallengeBut רבי יהודה הנשיא mentions a custom of returning
  10. ResolutionHe is talking about the presents, not the קידושין money
  11. StatementA second ברייתא with the same kind of dispute
  12. QuestionWhat case is this ברייתא about? Not if she died
  13. RejectionNot if he died either
  14. RejectionNot an ordinary betrothed woman who sinned
  15. ResponseThe answer: a כהן's betrothed who was forced
  16. ConclusionWhy רבי יוסי splits the money
  17. StatementLocal custom decides whether betrothal money is returned
  18. QuestionWhat is the rule in the rest of Babylonia
  19. ResponseGifts are returned, betrothal money is not
  20. ConclusionThe final ruling depends on who ended the marriage
  21. StatementBetrothal money is not returned, so people won't think he may marry her sister
  22. RejectionHer divorce document proves she was married
  23. Rejectionרב אשי's answer is rejected
  24. StatementBack to the משנה: groomsmen's gifts can be collected in court
  25. StatementA ברייתא lists five rules about groomsmen's gifts