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Bava Basra 174a

בבא בתרא קע״ד ע״א

Bava Batra 174a

Learn Bava Basra 174a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Guarantors (עָרֵב and קַבְּלָן): when the lender may go to them, which wording creates each kind, collecting from a borrower's property, and a guarantor who paid an orphans' debt.

Overview

This amud finishes the משנה with the view of רבן שמעון בן גמליאל: if the borrower has property, the lender cannot collect from any guarantor, not even a קַבְּלָן. רבי יוחנן teaches that we usually follow רבן שמעון בן גמליאל in the משנה, but the guarantor case is one of three exceptions. רב הונא then explains the wording: 'lend him' makes a regular עָרֵב, and 'give him' makes a קַבְּלָן. The גמרא asks about mixed wording, and רבי יצחק, רב חסדא and רבא each draw the line differently. אמימר says 'give him, and I will give' frees the borrower completely, but the גמרא rejects this unless the guarantor handles the money himself. A story about רב חנין teaches that a lender must demand payment from the borrower before seizing his property, because property works like a guarantor. Finally, a guarantor who paid an orphans' debt without telling them cannot collect from the young orphans now. רב פפא and רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע each give a reason.

Opening lines

רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר:

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says:

אִם יֵשׁ נְכָסִים לַלֹּוֶה –

If the borrower has property,

אֶחָד זֶה וְאֶחָד זֶה

whether this one or that one,

לֹא יִפָּרַע מֵהֶן.

he may not collect from them.

The steps (15)

  1. Statementרבן שמעון בן גמליאל: no collecting from any guarantor while the borrower has property
  2. StatementWe follow רבן שמעון בן גמליאל in the משנה except in three places
  3. Statementרב הונא: phrases starting with 'lend him' make a regular guarantor
  4. Statementרב הונא: phrases starting with 'give him' make an unconditional guarantor
  5. QuestionWhat if the wording is mixed?
  6. Responseרבי יצחק: the guarantor title decides
  7. Responseרב חסדא: almost everything is an unconditional guarantee
  8. Responseרבא: almost everything is a regular guarantee
  9. Statementאמימר: "Give him, and I will give" cuts off the borrower completely
  10. RejectionThe borrower is freed only if the guarantor personally hands over the money
  11. StatementA judge lets the lender seize property too early, and רב חנין reverses it
  12. Proofרבא praises the ruling: property is like a guarantor, so it cannot be collected from first
  13. StatementA guarantor pays an orphans' debt without telling them
  14. Responseרב פפא: young orphans are not obligated in the מצוה of paying debts
  15. Responseרב הונא בריה דרב יהושע: maybe the father already gave the creditor bundles of money