Bava Basra 174b

בבא בתרא קע״ד ע״ב

Bava Batra 174b

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Topic

Minor orphans and their father's debts, guarantors (ערב and קבלן) for loans and for a כתובה, and a dying man's claim of debt after giving his property to הקדש.

Overview

Earlier on the daf, רב פפא and רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע both said that minor orphans do not pay their father's debt right away, but for different reasons. The גמרא finds the practical difference: when we know the father never paid, because he admitted the debt or died under a שמתא. The Sages of ארץ ישראל rule like רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע. A ברייתא about a guarantor who collects from minor orphans challenges רב פפא, and the גמרא answers that the words 'התקבלתי' make it a special case. Next come a story about a guarantor for a non-Jewish lender and a debate over the worry about 'bundles' (צררי). Then the גמרא turns to the משנה's rule about a guarantor for a כתובה. It tells how אביי suggested a divorce plan to help the poor scholar רב הונא, a plan that failed because he was a כהן. From that story the גמרא sets out which guarantors are bound and rules that an ordinary guarantor of a כתובה is never bound. Finally, רב הונא rules that a dying man who gave everything to הקדש is believed about a debt, and רב נחמן begins to challenge him. That discussion continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (26)

1. QuestionWhat is the difference between the two reasons?
2. ResponseTwo cases where we know the father did not pay
3. ConclusionThe Sages of ארץ ישראל rule like רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע
4. ChallengeA challenge from a ברייתא about a guarantor holding the loan document
5. ChallengeThe ברייתא fits רב הונא but is hard for רב פפא
6. ResolutionWriting 'I received' makes it a real loan document
7. StatementA guarantor for a non-Jewish lender: no worry about bundles
8. Rejectionרב אשי: with a non-Jewish lender, bundles are even more likely
9. StatementQuoting the next line of the משנה about a guarantor for a כתובה
10. Statementאביי suggests a divorce plan to help a poor scholar
11. Challengeרבא objects: the משנה requires a vow that blocks remarriage
12. Resolutionאביי answers: not every divorce happens in בית דין
13. ConclusionThe plan fails: רב הונא turns out to be a כהן
14. ChallengeWould אביי really give such advice? He calls it wicked elsewhere
15. ResolutionA son and a Torah scholar are different
16. ChallengeA guarantor of a כתובה is not obligated
17. ResolutionHe was an unconditional guarantor
18. ChallengeProblem according to the view that a קבלן needs the husband to have property
19. ResolutionFirst answer: he once had property that was lost
20. ResolutionSecond answer: a father truly binds himself for his son
21. StatementThe teaching about which guarantors are bound
22. ConclusionThe final ruling on guarantors
23. QuestionWhy is a guarantor of a כתובה exempt?
24. ResponseHe only did a מצוה, and she lost nothing
25. StatementA dying man who gave everything to הקדש is believed about a debt
26. Challengeרב נחמן challenges רב הונא from רב and שמואל