Bava Basra 175a

בבא בתרא קע״ה ע״א

Bava Batra 175a

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Topic

A dying person's admission of a debt: when it is paid, when orphans are believed, and why it needs no formal witnesses; then a new משנה on collecting written versus oral loans

Overview

This amud continues the discussion of a dying person (שכיב מרע) who admits he owes money. The גמרא asks why רב הונא pays the debt from property given to הקדש, when רב ושמואל worry that people pretend to owe money so they won't look rich. After one answer fails, רב נחמן explains that both cases involve a שטר. In רב הונא's case the court already confirmed it. In רב ושמואל's case it was not confirmed, and saying "תנו" counts as the dying man confirming it. Next, רבה rules on orphans who claim the debt was already paid. After an objection, the גמרא restates his ruling: the orphans are believed if their father said "מנה לפלוני בידי" and later said he paid, but not if he had said "תנו". Then רבא asks whether a dying man's admission needs "אתם עדי" or "כתובו", and he answers that a person does not joke at the time of death, so his words are like a written, delivered document. Finally, a new משנה teaches that a loan with a שטר is collected even from sold property, while a loan before עדים only is collected only from property the borrower still owns.

Opening lines

The steps (10)

1. ChallengeWhy not apply the 'not looking rich' worry to the הקדש case too?
2. Resolutionרב הונא is talking about a creditor who holds a document
3. ChallengeThen רב ושמואל must mean an oral loan, which they say can't be collected from heirs
4. Resolutionרב נחמן: both cases have a document; the difference is whether it was confirmed
5. Statementרבה's ruling on orphans who claim they repaid
6. ChallengeThe גמרא says the logic should be reversed
7. Resolutionרבה's ruling restated: the father later said he paid
8. Questionרבא asks whether a deathbed admission needs witnesses or writing
9. Responseרבא answers his own question: a dying man does not joke
10. StatementNew משנה: a loan with a document versus a loan before witnesses