Bava Basra 176a

בבא בתרא קע״ו ע״א

Bava Batra 176a

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Topic

Collecting debts from heirs, buyers and guarantors: oral loans, handwritten notes, the guarantor's 'and', and the strangling case

Overview

רב פפא rules that an oral loan (מלוה על פה) can be collected from the borrower's heirs but not from people who bought his land, because an oral loan has no קלא. רבי יוחנן adds that a note in the borrower's own handwriting reaches only free property, even if בית דין confirmed it. רמי בר חמא challenges this from רבי אלעזר's case of an unsigned גט handed over before witnesses. The גמרא answers that there the husband obligated himself from the time of writing. Next, רב explains the משנה about a guarantor (ערב): a guarantor's line joined to the document with 'and' (ופלוני ערב) reaches sold property, while 'פלוני ערב' standing alone reaches only free property. After a challenge from רבא, the גמרא concludes that רבי יוחנן agrees with רב. רבי יוחנן also rules that the הלכה follows רבי ישמעאל, even in בן ננס's strangling case. Finally שמואל says a guarantor in the strangling case is bound if a קנין was made, which implies an ordinary ערב needs no קנין. רב נחמן disagrees, and his statement continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. StatementAn oral loan can be collected from heirs but not from buyers
2. QuestionDoes confirming the handwriting in court help with sold property?
3. ResponseCourt confirmation does not help
4. ChallengeChallenge begins: the three invalid גיטין
5. Challengeרבי אלעזר: an unsigned document handed over before witnesses collects from sold property
6. ResolutionThe גט case is different because the husband committed from the time of writing
7. Statementרב rules on a guarantor written before or after the signatures
8. StatementA second version of רב: even before the signatures, only free property
9. Challengeרב contradicts himself
10. ResolutionThe difference is the word "and"
11. Statementרבי יוחנן: a guarantor is collected only from free property
12. ChallengeChallenge from רבי יוחנן's own ruling about a greeting in a גט
13. Resolutionרבי יוחנן was speaking only about 'פלוני ערב' without the 'and'
14. ChallengeNow רבי יוחנן just repeats רב
15. ResolutionRead it as 'and so said רבי יוחנן'
16. StatementThe הלכה follows רבי ישמעאל despite his praise
17. QuestionDid רבי ישמעאל argue about the strangling case?
18. ResponseYes, he argued even there
19. QuestionIs the הלכה like him in the strangling case?
20. ResponseThe הלכה follows him even in the strangling case
21. Statementשמואל: In the strangling case, a guarantor with a קנין is obligated
22. ConclusionSo an ordinary guarantor does not need a קנין
23. StatementThis argues with רב נחמן