Bava Kamma 108b

בבא קמא ק״ח ע״ב

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Topic

Bava Kamma 108b: who gets the thief's כפל, a thief's admission to the שומר or the owners, a שומר's duties once the thief is known, and a new משנה on false oaths about deposits.

Overview

This amud deals with a שומר whose deposit was stolen, and with who gets the thief's כפל (double payment). It opens with the end of the argument between אביי and רבא about a שומר who both swore and paid. אביי says the oath decides, so the כפל goes to the owner. רבא says the payment decides, so it goes to the שומר. Each one rereads the משנה's clauses to fit his view. Next comes a case where the thief admits to the שומר. רבא rules that the admission frees the thief from כפל only if the שומר's oath was true, and his follow-up questions about false oaths end in תיקו. The reverse case, where the thief admits to owners who were already paid, also ends in תיקו. אביי and רבא then argue over whether a שומר חנם may swear his way out once the thief is known. A question from רבה זוטי about a stolen animal that the thief brought back also ends in תיקו. The amud closes with a new משנה about a שומר who swears falsely, a son who robbed his father, and a father's קונם against his son.

Opening lines

The steps (24)

1. Proofאביי completes his reading of the first clause
2. Proofרבא infers the opposite from the last clause
3. ChallengeThe last clause is a problem for אביי
4. Resolutionאביי rereads the last clause
5. ChallengeThe first clause is a problem for רבא
6. Resolutionרבא rereads the first clause
7. QuestionNew question: does admitting to the guardian free the thief?
8. Responseרבא: It depends on whether the bailee's oath was true
9. Questionרבא asks about a bailee who was stopped before swearing falsely
10. QuestionAnother version of רבא's question: an actual false oath
11. QuestionNew question: the thief admits to the owners after the bailee paid
12. QuestionThe two sides of the question, left unresolved
13. Statementאביי: A known thief, a שומר חנם may choose, a שומר שכר must go to court
14. Statementרבא: Both kinds of שומר must take the thief to court
15. ChallengeDoes רבא argue with רב הונא בר אבין?
16. Resolutionרבא: That ruling is about a שומר who already swore
17. ChallengeBut the ruling says "if he wants, he swears"
18. ResolutionRead it as: he may stand by his oath or go to court
19. Questionרבה זוטי: The thief returned the animal and it died through negligence
20. QuestionDid his duty end, or did it come back? Left unresolved
21. StatementThe guardian who says 'it was lost' and swears falsely
22. StatementThe guardian who says 'it was stolen' and swears falsely
23. StatementThe son who robbed his father and swore falsely
24. StatementA father's vow forbidding his son, and the son still inherits