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Bava Kamma 109a

בבא קמא ק״ט ע״א

Learn Bava Kamma 109a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Whether a son who robbed his father can forgive the theft debt to himself once he inherits, and three ways to explain the sources

Overview

The amud opens with the end of the משנה, which finishes the case of a father who vowed that his son may not benefit from his property, even after the father's death. The גמרא then goes back to the משנה's case of a son who robbed his father. רב יוסף says the son may even give the payment to charity, and רב פפא adds that he must say 'This is what was stolen from my father.' The גמרא asks why the son, who is now the heir, cannot just forgive the debt to himself, since another משנה shows that a theft debt can be forgiven. רבי יוחנן answers that the two משניות follow two תנאים, רבי יוסי הגלילי and רבי עקיבא. He bases this on a ברייתא about a man who robbed a גר, which ends in a disagreement between them. רב ששת objects to this reading and says instead that both משניות follow רבי יוסי הגלילי: forgiving works 'to others' but not 'to himself'. רבא gives the reverse answer and says both משניות follow רבי עקיבא, using the same split.

Opening lines

בְּחַיָּיו וּבְמוֹתוֹ,

[If the father vowed his son may not benefit from his property] in his life and in his death,

אִם מֵת – לֹא יִירָשֶׁנּוּ,

if he dies, he does not inherit him,

וְיַחְזִיר לְבָנָיו אוֹ לְאֶחָיו.

and he gives it back to his sons or to his brothers.

וְאִם אֵין לוֹ –

And if he does not have [enough to live on],

The steps (15)

  1. StatementA son forbidden from his father's property in life and in death
  2. StatementThe payment may even go to charity
  3. StatementHe must say the money is what he stole from his father
  4. ChallengeWhy can't the heir just forgive the debt to himself?
  5. ProofAnother משנה shows a theft debt can be forgiven
  6. ResolutionThe two משניות follow different תנאים
  7. ProofThe ברייתא begins: the פסוק is about robbing a convert
  8. StatementThe convert who turned the theft into a loan, and the disagreement
  9. ResolutionHow each opinion handles forgiving a theft debt
  10. ResolutionWhy the ברייתא mentions turning the theft into a loan
  11. Challengeרב ששת objects: the משניות should have taught the bigger חידוש
  12. Resolutionרב ששת: both משניות follow רבי יוסי הגלילי
  13. ChallengeThen why does the robber of the גר keep the money?
  14. ResolutionBecause the גר turned it into a loan
  15. Resolutionרבא: both משניות follow רבי עקיבא