Bava Kamma 19a

בבא קמא י״ט ע״א

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Topic

צרורות (pebble damage): the dispute of סומכוס and רבנן, questions about שינוי and כח כחו, and pebbles kicked up in רשות הרבים.

Overview

The amud begins by explaining why the ברייתא gives נזק שלם for a rooster that broke a vessel while רב יוסף gives only חצי נזק. The גמרא's answer is that this is the known מחלוקת between סומכוס and רבנן about צרורות, and that seeds in the vessel made the rooster's act normal. רב אשי then asks two questions about צרורות. The first is whether unusual behavior (שינוי) lowers the payment to רביע נזק. The second is whether, according to סומכוס, כח כחו counts like כחו. Both end in תיקו. Next the גמרא asks how to read the משנה's line about kicking and pebbles. It proves from the shard case in the סיפא that the משנה follows רבנן, and it shows that רב אשי's quarter-damage question is really about this line. Further questions follow: an animal that cannot avoid scattering pebbles, and pebbles kicked up in רשות הרבים. On the second, רבי זירא rules that they are a תולדה of רגל and exempt there. Twice רבי ירמיה challenges him from sources, and twice רבי זירא retracts his claim that pebbles flung in רשות הרבים which damage in רשות היחיד are exempt. The amud ends as רבי ירמיה opens yet another challenge, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (32)

1. QuestionSuggesting the dispute is about warning for pebble damage
2. RejectionNo, it was one time, and this is the dispute of סומכוס and רבנן
3. ChallengeBut isn't this unusual behavior?
4. ResolutionThere were seeds in the vessel
5. Questionרב אשי asks: do unusual pebbles pay one-quarter?
6. ResponseAnswered from רבא's question: no quarter payment
7. Rejectionרבא's question may have been an 'if you say' question
8. Questionרב אשי asks about כח כחו according to סומכוס
9. QuestionThe two sides of רב אשי's question, left unresolved
10. StatementBack to the משנה: kicking or pebbles pays half
11. QuestionHow should this משנה line be read?
12. QuestionTwo possible readings of the kicking-and-pebbles line
13. ProofProof from the shard that broke a second vessel
14. RejectionRereading 'first' and 'second' so it fits סומכוס
15. ChallengeThen רב אשי's question would already be answered
16. Resolutionרב אשי reads the משנה like the Rabbis and asks a different question
17. ConclusionThe other side of רב אשי's question, left unresolved
18. QuestionAn animal that must scatter pebbles but kicks them up anyway
19. ConclusionTwo ways to see it, left unresolved
20. QuestionKicked-up pebbles in רשות הרבים: like קרן or like רגל?
21. Responseרבי זירא: it is a תולדה of רגל
22. QuestionPebbles flung in the public area that damage in a private area
23. ResponseNo lifting here, so no placing either
24. ChallengeA ברייתא says the owner is liable even in the public area
25. ResolutionThe ברייתא means they landed in a private area
26. ChallengeBut you just said that case is exempt
27. Conclusionרבי זירא retracts
28. ChallengeThe broken vessel case challenges רבי זירא again
29. ResolutionThe piece landed in a private area
30. ChallengeAgain: but you said that case is exempt
31. Conclusionרבי זירא retracts again
32. ChallengeAnother challenge begins: is that really so?