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Bava Kamma 24b

בבא קמא כ״ד ע״ב

Learn Bava Kamma 24b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Witnesses and ייעוד on the ox, inciting another's dog, and the משנה about קרן in רשות הניזק (רבי טרפון vs. the חכמים)

Overview

This amud has three topics. First, the גמרא finishes a proof that ייעוד (the warning that turns a תם ox into a מועד) is placed on the ox and not on the owner. The proof uses a ברייתא about three sets of witnesses who all came on one day. רב כהנא challenges it, and the גמרא answers three ways: the witnesses signaled to each other, they came one right after another (רב אשי), or they knew the owner but not the ox (רבינא). Next, the גמרא asks whether a dog's owner pays when someone else sets the dog on a person. Two proofs are brought and both are rejected. רבא then rules that if the victim set the dog on himself, the owner is פטור, and he explains that ריש לקיש's case of two cows is different from his rule. Finally, a new משנה brings a מחלוקת about an ox that gores in the victim's property. רבי טרפון uses a קל וחומר to argue for נזק שלם, the חכמים answer with דיו לבא מן הדין להיות כנדון, and רבי טרפון's reply continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֶלָּא אִי אָמְרַתְּ לְיַיעוֹדֵי גַּבְרָא,

But if you say it is to forewarn the man,

לֵימְרוּ הָנָךְ קַמָּאֵי:

let those first ones say:

אֲנַן מִי הֲוָה יָדְעִינַן

Did we know

דְּבָתַר תְּלָתָא יוֹמֵי –

that after three days

The steps (19)

  1. ProofIf forewarning were on the man, the first witnesses could say they never knew
  2. Challengeרב כהנא: even if forewarning is on the ox, the last witnesses have an excuse
  3. ResolutionThe witnesses were signaling to each other
  4. Resolutionרב אשי: the witnesses came one right after another
  5. Resolutionרבינא: they knew the owner but not the ox
  6. ChallengeHow can they warn about an ox they can't identify?
  7. ResolutionThe warning: guard your whole herd
  8. QuestionIs the owner liable if someone else sets his dog on a person?
  9. Proofרבי זירא's proof from children petting an ox
  10. Rejectionאביי: the ברייתא only says it stays a מועד
  11. ProofProof from the משנה about setting a dog on someone
  12. RejectionRejected: even the one who set it is exempt
  13. Statementרבא: if the victim set the dog on himself, the owner is exempt
  14. Proofרב פפא brings support from ריש לקיש's two cows
  15. Rejectionרבא: in that case I would make the owner pay
  16. StatementNew משנה: an ox damaging in the victim's property
  17. Proofרבי טרפון's logical argument for full payment
  18. RejectionThe Sages answer: a derived law cannot exceed its source
  19. Challengeרבי טרפון begins his counter-reply