Gemara Clarity

Bava Kamma 25a

בבא קמא כ״ה ע״א

Learn Bava Kamma 25a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The rule of דיו: רבי טרפון vs. the חכמים on קרן in רשות הניזק, and when a קל וחומר may be limited

Overview

This amud opens in the middle of the משנה. רבי טרפון builds a קל וחומר from רגל to prove that קרן in רשות הניזק pays נזק שלם. The חכמים answer with דיו: a conclusion can't be stronger than its source, so it stays חצי נזק. The גמרא asks how רבי טרפון could reject דיו, since a ברייתא proves it from the Torah with מרים's seven days. It answers that he rejects דיו only where it would leave the קל וחומר teaching nothing. The רבנן and רבי טרפון then argue over the פסוקים about מרים, each reading them to fit his view. רב פפא challenges אביי with a ברייתא about a זב's semen that seems to ignore דיו. אביי shows that דיו there would also cancel the קל וחומר completely. The גמרא then asks which תנא holds that this semen is טמא by carrying, rules out רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע, and begins quoting a משנה in כלים that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

לֹא אָדוּן קֶרֶן מִקֶּרֶן,

I will not derive Goring from Goring;

אֲנִי אָדוּן קֶרֶן מֵרֶגֶל –

I will derive Goring from Trampling:

וּמָה בְּמָקוֹם שֶׁהֵקֵל

And if in a place where [the Torah] was lenient

עַל הַשֵּׁן וְעַל הָרֶגֶל,

about Eating and Trampling,

The steps (20)

  1. Statementרבי טרפון learns Goring from Trampling
  2. RejectionThe חכמים answer: it is enough to be like the source
  3. ChallengeHow can רבי טרפון reject a Torah rule?
  4. ProofProof from מרים's seven days
  5. Resolutionרבי טרפון rejects דיו only when it cancels the whole argument
  6. ResolutionWhy מרים's case still teaches something
  7. ResolutionWith קרן, דיו would leave the קל וחומר teaching nothing
  8. ChallengeThe רבנן say מרים's seven days are written openly
  9. Resolutionרבי טרפון says that פסוק is the source for דיו
  10. ChallengeThe רבנן point to a second פסוק about מרים
  11. ResolutionThe second פסוק teaches that דיו applies everywhere
  12. Challengeרב פפא: Here is a תנא who ignores the rule of דיו
  13. ProofThe ברייתא: a קל וחומר for the semen of a זב
  14. ChallengeWhy didn't the תנא limit it to touching?
  15. RejectionBlocking the defense that touching needs no קל וחומר
  16. Resolutionאביי: The verse never says 'not something else'
  17. QuestionWho holds that a זב's semen is טמא by carrying?
  18. ResponseNot רבי אליעזר and not רבי יהושע
  19. ProofWhy רבי יהושע is not the answer
  20. ResponseThe answer is a different תנא