Bava Kamma 34a

בבא קמא ל״ד ע״א

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Topic

How damage is valued when an ox's worth changes, and how רבי מאיר and רבי יהודה read 'divide the live ox and the dead'

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a discussion about a creditor who grabs an ox that did damage. The גמרא rejects the idea that a later creditor who collects first loses what he took. The ox case is special, because the injured party collects from that very ox wherever it is. Next, a ברייתא teaches when damage is valued. If the hurt ox later rises in value, we go by the time of the damage. If it drops because of the wound, we go by the time of court. The גמרא explains the ruling about the damaging ox according to רבי עקיבא, who holds that the two owners are partners, by saying its owner fattened it. Then a new משנה brings the argument between רבי מאיר and רבי יהודה about which case the פסוק 'sell the live ox and divide its money, and the dead too they shall divide' describes. רבא shows that they really differ about who carries a drop in the carcass's value. אביי begins to challenge him, and that challenge continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. ProofTrying to learn a rule about a later creditor who collects first
2. RejectionRejecting the inference: the ox case is special
3. StatementA ברייתא: if the hurt ox gains value, we use the value at the time of damage
4. StatementIf the hurt ox loses value, we use the value at the time of the court case
5. StatementThe damaging ox goes up or down in value
6. QuestionWhose opinion is the first ruling?
7. ChallengeThe second ruling fits רבי עקיבא, so the ברייתא is split
8. ResolutionIt is all רבי עקיבא: the owner fattened the ox
9. ChallengeIf it means fattened, the first clause is too obvious
10. ResolutionThe first clause covers both cases, the last clause only fattening
11. QuestionWhy did the hurt ox get weaker?
12. RejectionIt cannot mean it got weaker from work
13. ResponseIt got weaker from the wound itself
14. StatementNew משנה: רבי מאיר applies the פסוק to an ox whose carcass is worthless
15. Challengeרבי יהודה agrees with the money result but says the reading skips part of the פסוק
16. Responseרבי יהודה's own case: the carcass is worth fifty זוז
17. StatementA ברייתא gives רבי יהודה's view in full
18. StatementIn the ברייתא, רבי מאיר says the תורה's case is the worthless carcass
19. Questionרבי מאיר asks himself how he explains 'the dead too they shall divide'
20. Responseרבי מאיר: the loss caused by the death is split and paid from the live ox
21. QuestionIf both opinions give each side 125, what is the difference?
22. ResponseThey disagree about who absorbs a drop in the carcass's value
23. Challengeאביי begins to challenge רבא's explanation of רבי יהודה