Bava Metzia 8a

בבא מציעא ח׳ ע״א

Learn Bava Metzia 8a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Dividing a disputed item's value, and whether lifting a found item for a friend acquires it for him (רמי בר חמא vs. רבא).

Overview

This amud opens by asking whether two people who split a disputed item really cut it in half. A plain טלית can still clothe small children, and a gold-threaded one can still clothe the children of kings. But a non-kosher animal would be ruined if cut, so the גמרא concludes that 'dividing' means splitting the item's value. Next, רמי בר חמא learns from the משנה that if you lift a found item for a friend, the friend acquires it. רבא disagrees: in the משנה each person acquires for himself, and because of that he also acquires for the other (מגו דזכי לנפשיה זכי נמי לחבריה). רבא proves this from partners who steal together. The גמרא then works through רבא's ruling about a חרש and a פקח who lift an item together, and concludes that neither acquires. Then רב אחא asks which line of the משנה רמי בר חמא used. After several lines are tried and rejected, the last clause about dividing without an oath is offered, though רבא explains it through his מגו. The amud ends as רב יוסף begins a teaching from רב יהודה about two riding an animal; the teaching itself continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (30)

1. ResolutionThe cut garment is still useful for small children
2. ChallengeWhat about רבא's gold-threaded garment?
3. ResolutionGold-threaded halves suit royal children
4. ChallengeWhat about the two riders on one animal?
5. ChallengeA kosher animal is fine, but a non-kosher one is ruined
6. ConclusionThey divide the value, not the object
7. StatementLifting a found item for someone else
8. Proofרמי בר חמא's proof from the two people holding the garment
9. Rejectionרבא rejects the proof and explains the case through מגו
10. ProofProof for מגו from partners who steal together
11. StatementApplying מגו to a deaf-mute and a competent person who lift together
12. ChallengeHow Can the Competent Person Acquire?
13. ResolutionRereading רבא: Only the Deaf-Mute Acquires
14. ChallengeThe Competent Person Lifted Only for Himself
15. ResolutionSince the Competent Person Does Not Acquire, Neither Does the Deaf-Mute
16. ChallengeWhy is this different from two deaf people?
17. ResolutionThe enactment for deaf people exists to prevent fights
18. QuestionWhere did רמי בר חמא learn his rule?
19. RejectionThe garment case cannot be the source
20. ResponseThe source is an extra line in the משנה
21. ChallengeBut that line was already explained as buying and selling
22. ResponseA new source: the 'all versus half' clause
23. ChallengeMaybe this clause is about a purchase
24. ResolutionBut a purchase reading would add nothing
25. RejectionThe purchase reading does teach something: the crafty claimant
26. ResponseAnother proposed source: two riding on an animal
27. RejectionThe riding case may teach that a rider acquires
28. ResponseNew source: dividing without an oath when they admit
29. Rejectionרבא: acquiring for the friend works because he also acquires for himself
30. StatementOpening the discussion of two riding on an animal