Gemara Clarity

Chagigah 15a

חגיגה ט״ו ע״א

Learn Chagigah 15a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chagigah 15a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

בן זומא and the upper and lower waters, and how אחר (אלישע בן אבויה) left the Torah and refused רבי מאיר's pleas to return

Overview

The amud opens in the middle of a question to בן זומא: may a pregnant woman who still seems to be a בתולה marry a כהן גדול? He answers that שמואל's rare case does not matter, but she may have conceived in a bath. The גמרא defends that answer against another statement of שמואל. Next, a ברייתא tells how רבי יהושע found בן זומא lost in thought about the gap between the upper and lower waters, and said he was 'still outside.' The גמרא shows the flaw in בן זומא's proof and lists opinions on how wide that gap is. Then the גמרא turns to אחר, אלישע בן אבויה. He saw the angel מיטטרון sitting in heaven, wrongly thought there might be two powers, heard a בת קול shut him out from תשובה, and left the Torah. Several stories follow in which his student רבי מאיר keeps begging him to return, and אחר keeps answering that the heavenly voice excluded him. The amud ends as רבי מאיר brings him from one place of learning to another to hear children's verses, and the story continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

יָכוֹל אֲנִי לִבְעוֹל

I am able to have relations

כַּמָּה בְּעִילוֹת בְּלֹא דָּם.

several times without blood.

אוֹ דִלְמָא דִּשְׁמוּאֵל לָא שְׁכִיחָא?

Or perhaps a case like שמואל's is not common?

אֲמַר לְהוּ: דִּשְׁמוּאֵל לָא שְׁכִיחַ,

He said to them: a case like שמואל's is not common,

The steps (33)

  1. QuestionShould we worry about שמואל's rare ability?
  2. Responseבן זומא: שמואל's case is rare, but she may have conceived in a bath
  3. ChallengeChallenge: שמואל says seed must shoot like an arrow
  4. ResolutionAnswer: it shot like an arrow at the start
  5. StatementThe story: בן זומא does not stand for רבי יהושע
  6. Responseבן זומא: only three fingers between the upper and lower waters
  7. Conclusionרבי יהושע: בן זומא is still outside
  8. ChallengeWhy the proof fails: the hovering came before the separation
  9. QuestionHow big is the gap?
  10. ResponseA hair's width, or like bridge boards
  11. ResponseTwo robes spread over each other, or two cups
  12. Statementאחר cut down the saplings
  13. QuestionWhat happened to אחר?
  14. Responseאחר sees מיטטרון sitting and draws a wrong conclusion
  15. Statementמיטטרון is punished, then allowed to erase אחר's merits
  16. StatementA בת קול shuts אחר out
  17. Statementאחר decides to enjoy this world
  18. StatementHow אלישע בן אבויה got the name אחר
  19. Questionאחר asks רבי מאיר about a פסוק
  20. Responseרבי מאיר: everything was created with a counterpart
  21. RejectionEveryone has a portion in both גן עדן and גיהנם
  22. ProofThe verses that show a double portion
  23. Questionאחר asks about gold and glass
  24. ResponseTorah is hard to gain and easy to lose
  25. RejectionBroken vessels can be fixed, and so can a sinning scholar
  26. Challengeרבי מאיר pleads: then you come back too
  27. Responseאחר answers: I was excluded
  28. Statementאחר rides on שבת and warns רבי מאיר about the boundary
  29. Challengeרבי מאיר pleads again
  30. Responseאחר repeats: I am the exception
  31. StatementThe first child's verse: no peace for the wicked
  32. StatementThe second child's verse: sin that cannot be washed away
  33. StatementA third try begins