Gemara Clarity

Chullin 73b

חולין ע״ג ע״ב

Learn Chullin 73b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chullin 73b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How death and שחיטה affect a hanging limb (ניפול), how רבי יוחנן's view fits רבי מאיר, and why רבי יוחנן's rule was needed despite the משנה

Overview

First the גמרא checks רבי מאיר's earlier statement about a fetus's limb and a hanging limb. Under רבי שמעון בן לקיש it fits, because רבי מאיר was speaking according to the חכמים's view. Under רבי יוחנן it is a קשיא. So the גמרא restates the dispute: for רבי יוחנן, everyone agrees that שחיטה does not make an animal's own hanging limb count as 'fallen off' (ניפול). רבי יוסי ברבי חנינא explains why: the hanging limb is part of the mother's body, but the fetus's limb is not. Next, רבי יוחנן rules that everyone agrees מיתה makes a hanging limb ניפול and שחיטה does not. The גמרא asks why he needed to say this, since a משנה seems to teach both rules already. It answers that the משנה's plural word 'הוכשרו' could mean two kinds of flesh, so the משנה alone does not prove the rule for the limb. Finally רב יוסף supports רב יצחק בר יוסף's report, because רבה בר בר חנה agrees. He brings a ברייתא about hanging limbs and flesh, and רבה בר בר חנה's comment on it continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ,

Granted, according to Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish,

לְדִבְרֵיהֶם קָאָמַר לְהוּ:

he was speaking to them according to their words:

לְדִידִי לָא שְׁנָא אֵבֶר דְּעוּבָּר

According to me, there is no difference with a limb of a fetus

וְלָא שְׁנָא אֵבֶר דִּבְהֵמָה,

and there is no difference with a limb of an animal;

The steps (15)

  1. ResolutionUnder ריש לקיש, רבי מאיר's statement fits
  2. ChallengeUnder רבי יוחנן, the statement is difficult
  3. ResolutionRestating the dispute in a corrected version
  4. StatementWhy רבי מאיר treats the two limbs differently
  5. StatementEveryone agrees: death makes 'fallen off,' slaughter does not
  6. ChallengeWhich limb is meant, and why say it at all?
  7. ProofThe משנה that already teaches the rule for death
  8. ProofThe משנה that already teaches the rule for slaughter
  9. ResolutionWhy רבי יוחנן still needed to say it
  10. ChallengeBut the משנה uses the plural
  11. ResolutionTwo kinds of flesh
  12. QuestionWhy mention both kinds of flesh?
  13. ResponseFlesh from the limb still needs הכשר
  14. Statementרב יוסף: hold on to רב יצחק בר יוסף's report
  15. ProofThe ברייתא about hanging limbs and flesh