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Chullin 74a

חולין ע״ד ע״א

Learn Chullin 74a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The hanging limb and the rule that מיתה makes it count as fallen off but שחיטה does not; how שחיטה works for a fetus (בן שמונה, בן תשעה, בן פקועה)

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier point: a hanging limb of a properly שחוט animal is forbidden only by a rabbinic מצוה to keep away. רב יוסף then quotes רב that eating a hanging limb brings מלקות, while another Sage quotes רב the opposite way. רב יוסף explains that both quotes are right: מיתה makes the limb count as fallen off (ניפול), so it is אבר מן החי, but שחיטה does not. רבא finds the source for this in the extra word בְּמֹתָם, which is written twice in the פסוקים about שרצים. רב חסדא and רבה then disagree about whether the מחלוקת in the משנה about a fetus's limb covers a dead fetus too. Next, the גמרא settles a clash between the משנה and a ברייתא about a live בן שמונה, and shows how the ברייתא learns that a slaughtered טרפה is טהור. רב הושעיא asks whether slaughtering a live nine-month fetus inside its mother works, and רבא pushes away the proof brought for it. Finally, a new משנה rules on a fetus found inside a slaughtered animal: רבי מאיר says a live nine-month fetus needs its own שחיטה, while the חכמים say its mother's שחיטה is enough.

Opening lines

אֵין בָּהֶן אֶלָּא

There is nothing with them except

מִצְוַת פְּרוֹשׁ בִּלְבָד.

a מצוה to separate oneself, only.

יָתֵיב רַב יוֹסֵף קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב הוּנָא,

Rav Yosef sat before Rav Huna,

וְיָתֵיב וְקָאָמַר:

and he sat and was saying:

The steps (27)

  1. ConclusionOnly a rabbinic duty to keep away
  2. Statementרב יוסף quotes רב: eating the hanging limb brings lashes
  3. ChallengeA Sage quotes רב the opposite way
  4. Questionרב הונא asks which version to follow
  5. ResolutionBoth versions are right: death versus slaughter
  6. Questionרבא asks for the source of the death and slaughter rule
  7. ProofThe verse about creeping creatures: "when they are dead"
  8. RejectionIt cannot just exclude live creatures
  9. ConclusionSo death makes it fallen off, slaughter does not
  10. ChallengeBut that verse is about creeping animals
  11. ResolutionIf it cannot apply to creeping animals, apply it to animals
  12. ChallengeBut בְּמֹתָם is needed for another lesson
  13. Resolutionבְּמֹתָם is written twice
  14. StatementThe argument is only about a living fetus
  15. StatementThe same argument applies to a dead fetus
  16. ChallengeA teaching about the eight-month-old seems to clash with the משנה
  17. ResolutionThe ברייתא counts a kind that is permitted through its mother
  18. QuestionHow does the ברייתא know that a slaughtered טרפה is טהור?
  19. ResponseThe source is the word מן in the פסוק
  20. QuestionSlaughtering a live nine-month fetus inside its mother
  21. QuestionWhy רבי מאיר might say the שחיטה does not work inside the mother
  22. QuestionThe question from the side of the Rabbis
  23. ProofProof from an animal born a טרפה
  24. Rejectionרבא: the animal was formed a טרפה from the start
  25. StatementNew משנה: a fetus found inside a slaughtered animal
  26. Statementרבי מאיר: A live nine-month fetus needs its own slaughter
  27. StatementThe חכמים: The mother's slaughter permits the fetus