Gemara Clarity

Gittin 80b

גיטין פ׳ ע״ב

Learn Gittin 80b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Gittin 80b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Dating a גט by officials, changed names in a גט, penalties for צרות who remarried, and the scribe who mixed up the גט and the receipt

Overview

The amud opens with the end of the משנה: the strict rules about a wrongly dated גט belong to רבי מאיר, while the חכמים accept even a date by a minor city official. רבה rules that a גט dated by the governor of בשכר is valid even for רבי מאיר, because naming a senior official honors the kingdom, while naming a minor one insults it. רב adds that the חכמים say the child is כשר, but they agree he is a ממזר if the names of the people or their cities were changed, and רב אשי proves this from the משנה. Next the גמרא discusses the צרות who married when they should have waited for יבום. It asks whether the משנה's word 'married' excludes illicit relations, which bears on רב המנונא's ruling, and it brings two versions of this discussion. It then explains why the משנה needs both of its cases of penalized צרות. Finally it turns to the scribe who mixed up the גט and the receipt. שמואל and רב אדא בר אהבה disagree about what רבי אליעזר means by 'immediately.' The amud ends with a challenge to שמואל from the משנה's mention of a 'second' husband.

Opening lines

זוֹ דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר,

This is the statement of רבי מאיר,

אֲבָל חֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים:

but the Sages say:

אֲפִילּוּ לֹא כָּתַב אֶלָּא

even if he wrote only

לְשֵׁם סַנְטָר שֶׁבָּעִיר –

in the name of the guardsman in the city

The steps (23)

  1. StatementThe חכמים disagree with רבי מאיר about how a גט is dated
  2. QuestionA real גט dated by the governor of בשכר
  3. Responseרבה rules that even רבי מאיר agrees the גט is valid
  4. ChallengeHow is a governor different from the city guardsman?
  5. ResolutionA minor official insults the kingdom, but a governor honors it
  6. Statementרב: only רבי מאיר makes the child a ממזר, but the חכמים agree when names are changed
  7. Proofרב אשי brings support from the משנה's case of changed names
  8. ProofThis line cannot follow רבי מאיר, or it would be listed together with the earlier cases
  9. ConclusionSo the line follows the חכמים, and רב is proven
  10. StatementNew line of the משנה: the law speaks of marrying, not of illicit relations
  11. ChallengeDoes the משנה refute רב המנונא?
  12. Rejection'Married' is just the polite way of saying it
  13. StatementA second version: 'married' includes illicit relations
  14. ProofMaybe the משנה supports רב המנונא
  15. RejectionOnly marrying counts, because it looks like the overseas-husband case
  16. StatementQuoting the next case in the משנה and saying it is needed
  17. ResponseWhy the first case alone would not be enough
  18. ResponseWhy the second case alone would not be enough
  19. StatementThe משנה's case of the scribe who mixed up the papers
  20. QuestionWhat counts as 'immediately' and what counts as 'after some time'
  21. Responseשמואל: 'immediately' means while they are still sitting and dealing with the divorce
  22. Responseרב אדא בר אהבה: 'immediately' means before she has remarried
  23. ChallengeThe משנה mentions a 'second' husband, which fits רב אדא but seems hard for שמואל