Gemara Clarity

Horayos 11a

הוריות י״א ע״א

Horayot 11a

Learn Horayos 11a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Horayos 11a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Finishing the story of לוט's daughters (מואב and עמון, and the reward for being first to a מצוה), then a new ברייתא on how the words ״מעם הארץ״ exclude the כהן משיח and the נשיא from the ordinary person's חטאת.

Overview

The עמוד opens by finishing the story of לוט's daughters. ישראל may harass מואב but not make war on them, while עמון may not even be harassed, because the younger daughter modestly named her son בן עמי. רבי יהושע בן קרחה learns from the older daughter that one should always hurry to do a מצוה. Next, a ברייתא teaches that the words ״מעם הארץ״ exclude the כהן משיח and the king from the ordinary person's חטאת. רב זביד explains why the king needs this exclusion: half a כזית of חלב eaten as a commoner and half eaten as king do not combine. רבא and רבי זירא then ask what happens in related cases, and רבי זירא's question ends in תיקו. The גמרא then discusses the מומר: who cannot bring a חטאת, the difference between sinning out of appetite and sinning to spite, and who counts as a מין. Finally it turns to the משנה's line that the נשיא is the king, and proves this from the words ״ה׳ אלהיו״.

Opening lines

הוּא דְּלָא, הָא צַעוֹרֵי צַעֲרִינְהוּ.

It is [war] that is not allowed, but harassing them, he may harass them.

וְאִילּוּ צְעִירָה דִּקְרָיתֵיהּ ״בֶּן עַמִּי״,

Whereas the younger one, who called him "Ben Ami",

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: ״אַל תְּצֻרֵם וְאַל תִּתְגָּר בָּם״,

He said to him: "Do not harass them and do not contend with them",

כְּלָל, אֲפִילּוּ צַעוֹרֵי לָא.

at all; even harassing is not allowed.

The steps (32)

  1. Statementמואב may be harassed, but עמון may not even be harassed
  2. StatementAlways be first to do a מצוה
  3. Statement״מעם הארץ״ excludes the כהן משיח and the נשיא
  4. ChallengeWhy exclude them? They already have their own קרבנות
  5. ResolutionWithout the פסוק, the כהן משיח might bring a commoner's offering for action alone
  6. ChallengeThe exclusion still seems pointless for the king
  7. ResolutionA king who sinned before he was appointed
  8. ChallengeThat answer only works for רבי שמעון
  9. ResolutionHalf before becoming king and half after
  10. QuestionDoes a short time as king break up the two halves?
  11. ProofTrying to answer the question from a case of a sinner who became a מומר
  12. RejectionThe two cases are not alike
  13. QuestionA doubtful sin as a commoner, found out after becoming king
  14. QuestionThe question only works according to רבי שמעון
  15. QuestionThe two sides of the question
  16. ConclusionThe question stays unanswered
  17. Statement'From the common people' leaves out the מומר
  18. Statementרבי שמעון's source: only one who would turn back brings an offering
  19. QuestionWhat practical difference is there between the two sources?
  20. Responseרב המנונא: one who eats חלב on purpose but wants to bring an offering for blood
  21. Challengeרבא says everyone agrees a משומד for חלב is not a משומד for blood
  22. ResolutionNew difference: one who eats forbidden food out of appetite and made a mistake
  23. Statementברייתא: which sins make someone a משומד
  24. QuestionHow can the ברייתא ask 'who is a משומד' after already answering?
  25. Responseרבי יוחנן explains what the ברייתא means
  26. QuestionWhat is the difference between the opinions
  27. ResponseThe difference is כלאים forbidden only by the רבנן
  28. Statementרב אחא and רבינא argue about spiting
  29. ChallengeChallenge from eating one flea
  30. ResolutionHe wanted to taste something forbidden
  31. StatementThe משנה: who is the נשיא
  32. StatementProof that the נשיא is a king, not a tribal leader