Horayos 5a

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Horayot 5a

Learn Horayos 5a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Horayos 5a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How many offerings are brought when the court rules wrongly and the people follow it, and which court's ruling creates this obligation

Overview

The amud finishes the משנה's argument between רבי מאיר, רבי יהודה and רבי שמעון about how many פרים and שעירים are brought when בית דין rules wrongly and the people follow. It covers the case of seven tribes and the case of a single tribe's own court. The חכמים say only בית דין הגדול's ruling creates this obligation. The גמרא then brings a ברייתא: if the judges forgot which ruling was wrong, they bring nothing, because the sin itself must become known. The ברייתא gives each תנא's source from the word 'קהל' and explains what counts as a majority. The גמרא asks whether the 'sin must be known' rule fits רבי אליעזר, and רב אשי shows that it can. Finally it explains each opinion by how many times the תנא counts 'קהל': four for רבי יהודה, three for רבי שמעון and two for רבי מאיר. It ends with two פסוקים behind רבי שמעון בן אלעזר's rule about six or seven tribes.

Opening lines

The steps (30)

1. Statementרבי שמעון: thirteen bulls for a mistake of the whole community
2. StatementSeven tribes sin: רבי מאיר says one bull
3. Statementרבי יהודה: even the tribes that did not sin bring bulls
4. Statementרבי שמעון: eight bulls for seven tribes
5. Statementרבי יהודה: a tribe's own court can make that tribe liable
6. Statementחכמים: only the בית דין הגדול's ruling creates liability
7. QuestionJudges know they erred but forgot which ruling it was
8. ResponseThe sin itself must become known
9. StatementEach sinning tribe brings its own bull
10. QuestionMaybe it means individual people, not tribes
11. ResponseThe word 'congregation' shows it means tribes
12. Statementרבי יהודה: even tribes that did not sin bring a bull
13. Statementרבי שמעון: the sinning tribes and the court each bring
14. Statementרבי מאיר: only the court brings, the people are exempt
15. StatementWhat counts as a majority: most people or most tribes
16. QuestionWho holds that the actual sin must be known?
17. ResponseThis teaching does not follow רבי אליעזר
18. Proofרבי אליעזר's view: liable whichever way you look at it
19. Responseרב אשי: it can follow רבי אליעזר because of a special פסוק
20. ChallengeThe same phrase appears for an individual
21. ResolutionFor an individual, the phrase excludes a מתעסק
22. QuestionWhat is רבי יהודה's reason?
23. ResponseFour mentions of 'קהל'
24. Responseרבי יהודה's four lessons from 'קהל'
25. Responseרבי שמעון counts only three mentions of 'קהל'
26. ResponseHow רבי שמעון uses his three mentions
27. Responseרבי מאיר counts only two mentions of 'קהל'
28. QuestionWhat is the source for רבי שמעון בן אלעזר?
29. ResponseTwo verses that seem to point in opposite directions
30. ResponseResolving the verses: six tribes that are most of the people, or seven tribes