Gemara Clarity

Horayos 8a

הוריות ח׳ ע״א

Horayot 8a

Learn Horayos 8a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Horayos 8a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

The כרת-and-חטאת condition for the offerings of בית דין, כהן משיח, נשיא and יחיד, its sources, and how we know the פסוקים in במדבר 15 are about עבודה זרה

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a ברייתא: everyone agrees the כהן משיח never brings an אשם תלוי. רבי and the רבנן each read 'על שגגתו אשר שגג' to exclude him, for slightly different reasons. Then a new משנה teaches that a בית דין and a כהן משיח are liable only for a mistaken ruling about a sin that brings כרת when done on purpose and a חטאת when done by mistake, and this includes עבודה זרה. The גמרא finds the source for each person: the צבור from 'עליה/עליה', the משיח from 'לאשמת העם', the נשיא from 'מצות/מצות', and the יחיד from the 'ו' of 'ואם נפש'. A ברייתא does the same for עבודה זרה, using 'מעיני' for the צבור and 'נפש אחת' for everyone else. For the רבנן, who use 'עליה' for a different law, the source is רבי יהושע בן לוי's היקש comparing the whole Torah to עבודה זרה. רבי uses that same פסוק instead to teach that the many and individuals bring the same קרבן for accidental עבודה זרה, and the גמרא defends this against רב חלקיה's challenge. Finally, the גמרא shows how we know the פסוקים in במדבר 15 are about עבודה זרה, a discussion that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְשָׁוִין שֶׁאֵין מֵבִיא אָשָׁם תָּלוּי.

And they agree that he does not bring a provisional guilt-offering.

מְנָלַן?

From where do we know this?

דִּכְתִיב: ״וְכִפֶּר [עָלָיו] הַכֹּהֵן

As it is written: 'And the priest shall atone [for him]

עַל שִׁגְגָתוֹ אֲשֶׁר שָׁגָג״.

for his unwitting act that he performed unwittingly.'

The steps (35)

  1. StatementEveryone agrees: no provisional guilt-offering for the anointed priest
  2. QuestionAsking for the source
  3. ResponseThe verse, and how רבי reads it
  4. ChallengeDoes the verse say 'all'?
  5. ResolutionThe extra words 'אשר שגג' teach 'all'
  6. StatementHow the רבנן read the same verse
  7. StatementNew משנה: liability only for rulings about כרת-level sins
  8. QuestionWhat is the source for the כרת-and-חטאת rule?
  9. Responseרבי links 'עליה' to 'עליה'
  10. QuestionWhat is the source for the כהן משיח?
  11. ResponseThe משיח is like the צבור
  12. QuestionWhat about the נשיא?
  13. ResponseThe נשיא learned from 'מצות' and 'מצות'
  14. QuestionWhere is the rule for the individual?
  15. ResponseThe 'and' in 'and if a soul' links the individual to the earlier verses
  16. StatementThe משנה's line about idol worship
  17. QuestionWhere do we learn this for idol worship?
  18. ResponseA ברייתא raises the worry that idol worship might be different
  19. ProofThe word 'מעיני' links idol worship to the other sins
  20. QuestionWhat about the individual, king and anointed priest for idol worship?
  21. Response'One soul' covers all three, learned from the verse above
  22. ChallengeWhat about the Rabbis who use the word for something else?
  23. ResponseThe whole Torah is compared to idol worship
  24. QuestionBut where is the source for the community?
  25. ResponseThe upper verse is learned from the lower one
  26. QuestionWhat does רבי do with this verse?
  27. Responseרבי uses the verse to make the many and the few equal in offerings
  28. Challengeרב חלקיה asks: what else could they bring?
  29. ChallengeEvery possible קרבן is already taken
  30. ResolutionThe פסוק is still needed
  31. QuestionHow do we know these פסוקים are about עבודה זרה?
  32. ResponseThe מצוה equal to all the מצוות
  33. ResponseThe school of רבי: a מצוה spoken by God and commanded through משה
  34. ProofProof that the people heard the commands against idolatry directly from God
  35. ResponseOpening a third source from the school of רבי ישמעאל