Kereisos 17a

כריתות י״ז ע״א

Keritot 17a

Learn Kereisos 17a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Kereisos 17a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

רב חסדא and רבא on what רבי עקיבא asked about separate acts: the ברייתות about רבן גמליאל writing on two שבתות, the wording of the נדה proof, and the debate over one חטאת or many.

Overview

Writing two letters is the smallest amount of writing that makes someone liable on שבת, so one letter is only a חצי שיעור. Two ברייתות disagree about someone who wrote one letter on each of two שבתות: one says רבן גמליאל holds him חייב, and the other says פטור. רב חסדא and רבא argue about what רבי עקיבא asked רבי אליעזר. רב חסדא says it was about forgetting שבת, and whether the days in between split the sins. רבא says it was about forgetting the מלאכות, and whether separate שבתות count as one unit. Under רבא, the פטור ברייתא seems to have no case, so רבא says רבן גמליאל holds like רבי אליעזר, and the word 'ומודה' is explained through the argument about two half-figs carried into two רשויות. The גמרא then tests both views against the wording of the משנה: נדה or נדות, and 'minor girls'. Finally a ברייתא gives a different version of the debate, in which רבי עקיבא asks about repeated acts with a נדה, and רבי אליעזר's proofs from שבת, minor girls and an animal are each rejected. The פרק ends, and a new משנה begins about cases of doubt in eating חלב.

Opening lines

The steps (30)

1. ResolutionHow רב חסדא explains the ברייתא that says liable
2. QuestionTurning to רבא's view
3. ChallengeGranted, the ברייתא that says liable fits רבא
4. ChallengeNo case fits the ברייתא that says exempt
5. Resolutionרבא says רבן גמליאל follows רבי אליעזר
6. ChallengeThe word 'concedes' implies an argument elsewhere
7. ChallengeIf he held like רבי עקיבא, the argument would make sense
8. QuestionWith רבי אליעזר, where would they argue?
9. Challengeרבי אליעזר also holds there is no awareness for a half-measure
10. ChallengeMaybe they argue about adding one thread to woven cloth? No
11. Resolutionרבא finds the argument: two halves of a fig
12. ConclusionMatching each תנא to a side of the ברייתא
13. ProofA new proof begins: רבי אליעזר's קל וחומר from נדה
14. ChallengeThe singular word נדה fits רב חסדא but not רבא
15. Resolutionרבא reads the משנה as נדות
16. StatementWhich sages read נדה and which read נדות
17. ChallengeFor רב חסדא, what days in between does a נדה have?
18. ResolutionImmersions count like the days in between
19. ProofThe word 'minor girls' fits רבא's reading
20. ChallengeWhy the plural according to רב חסדא?
21. ResolutionMinor girls in general
22. StatementA different version of רבי עקיבא's question
23. Proofרבי אליעזר proves from שבת that each act needs its own offering
24. Rejectionרבי עקיבא: שבת has many separate kinds of sin, but נדה does not
25. Proofרבי אליעזר brings the case of minor girls as proof
26. Rejectionרבי עקיבא: the minor girls are separate people
27. Proofרבי אליעזר brings the case of an animal as proof
28. Rejectionרבי עקיבא: the animal is just like the נדה
29. Conclusionהדרן: Closing the פרק אמרו לו
30. StatementNew משנה: Cases of doubt about eating forbidden fat