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Kereisos 17b

כריתות י״ז ע״ב

Keritot 17b

Learn Kereisos 17b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

When an אשם תלוי is brought: the משנה's doubt cases, and whether a single doubtful piece is enough or two pieces are needed

Overview

The amud opens with the end of a משנה about the אשם תלוי, the offering brought when a person is unsure whether he sinned. The משנה gives three classic doubt cases: two pieces of fat, his wife and his sister, and שבת and a weekday. It then rules that אשם תלוי offerings are counted just like חטאת offerings. In the גמרא, רב אסי and חייא בר רב argue whether the משנה means a single doubtful piece or one piece out of two. Their argument depends on whether we follow the spelling of the word מצות (singular) or its reading מצוות (plural). רב rules that one of two pieces obligates an אשם תלוי, while a single doubtful piece exempts. רבא explains this from the plural reading. Sources that require an אשם תלוי for a single doubt, such as the כוי, the יבם's doubtful child and the blood found on the cloth, are answered as following רבי אליעזר. רבי זירא gives a different reason: the doubt must be one that can be checked. The two reasons differ in a case of an olive-size piece and a half-olive piece.

Opening lines

אֵין בּוֹ,

there is not in it

שׁוּמָּן וָחֵלֶב לְפָנָיו,

permitted fat and forbidden fat are before him

וְאָכַל אֶחָד מֵהֶן

and he ate one of them

וְאֵינוֹ יוֹדֵעַ אֵיזֶה מֵהֶן אָכַל,

and he does not know which of them he ate

The steps (29)

  1. StatementFinishing the previous rule: even without a full measure
  2. StatementThree doubt cases that require an uncertain guilt offering
  3. StatementOne lapse of awareness means only one uncertain guilt offering
  4. StatementAwareness in between means an offering for each
  5. StatementDifferent kinds of forbidden food mean a separate אשם תלוי for each
  6. StatementDispute: one doubtful piece or one piece out of two
  7. QuestionWhat is the root of their disagreement?
  8. ResponseSpelling versus reading of the word מצות
  9. ChallengeChallenge to רב אסי from the end of the משנה
  10. Rejectionרב deflects the proof: the two clauses can differ
  11. ChallengeThen why mention two pieces at all?
  12. ResolutionThe style of 'this, and no need to say that'
  13. ChallengeFor חייא בר רב: why two clauses?
  14. ResolutionThe second clause explains the first
  15. Statementרב's ruling: two pieces obligate, one doubtful piece exempts
  16. Statementרבא explains the source for רב's rule
  17. Challengeאביי objects from רבי אליעזר's ruling on a כוי
  18. Resolutionרבי אליעזר follows the written spelling
  19. ChallengeA new challenge from a child of doubtful father
  20. ChallengeThe ברייתא ends by requiring an אָשָׁם תָּלוּי
  21. ResolutionThe ברייתא follows רבי אליעזר
  22. ChallengeA challenge from the משנה about blood found on the cloth
  23. ResolutionThis source also follows רבי אליעזר
  24. Statementרבי חייא quotes רב: two pieces obligate, one piece exempts
  25. Statementרבי זירא's reason for רב: two pieces can be checked
  26. QuestionWhat is the practical difference between רבא's and רבי זירא's reasons?
  27. ResponseThe difference: one olive-size piece and one half-olive piece
  28. Challengeרבי ירמיה's challenge from the fat of a כוי
  29. Resolutionרבי אליעזר does not require a checkable doubt