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Kesubos 16b

כתובות ט״ז ע״ב

Ketubot 16b

Learn Kesubos 16b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Kesubos 16b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Proving a כתובה of two hundred through witnesses to virgin-wedding customs, guarding against double collection, and explaining those wedding customs

Overview

This amud first finishes רבינא's answer to why we do not simply assume the bride was a virgin, as most brides are. He changes 'every virgin's wedding is talked about' to 'most are', so the missing publicity only weakens the majority, and witnesses can still decide the case. The גמרא then asks about the משנה's witnesses to the הינומא: could she collect with witnesses and later collect again with her כתובה document? רבי אבהו says a שובר (receipt) is written. רב פפא says the משנה is about a place where no כתובה document is written. A second version puts this debate on a ברייתא about a lost, hidden or burned כתובה. That forces a new reading: a woman who says she lost it is treated like one who hid it, and she is paid only if witnesses say it burned. The גמרא adds that where there is no other protection, everyone agrees a שובר is written. It then explains two virgin-wedding customs: the cup of תרומה wine, which shows she is 'first', and the sealed or open barrel of wine. Finally, a new ברייתא begins asking what is said while dancing before the כלה, and that discussion continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְזוֹ, הוֹאִיל וְאֵין לָהּ קוֹל —

And this one, since she has no publicity —

אִיתְּרַע לֵהּ רוּבָּא.

the majority is weakened for her.

אִי כׇּל הַנִּשֵּׂאת בְּתוּלָה יֵשׁ לָהּ קוֹל —

If every woman who marries as a virgin has publicity —

כִּי אֲתוֹ עֵדִים, מַאי הָוֵי?

when witnesses come, what of it?

The steps (29)

  1. ResolutionThe end of רבינא's first answer: this woman had no publicity
  2. ChallengeIf every virgin's wedding is talked about, her witnesses must be lying
  3. Resolutionרבינא changes 'every' to 'most'
  4. StatementQuoting the משנה about witnesses and the הינומא
  5. ChallengeCould she collect twice, once with witnesses and once with the document?
  6. Resolutionרבי אבהו: the husband gets a receipt
  7. Resolutionרב פפא: the משנה is in a place with no כתובה documents
  8. StatementAnother version: the same discussion is placed on a ברייתא
  9. ChallengeThe double-collection worry, now aimed at the ברייתא
  10. Resolutionרבי אבהו: a receipt is written
  11. Resolutionרב פפא: a place where no כתובה is written
  12. ChallengeBut the ברייתא speaks of a lost כתובה
  13. ResolutionHe wrote her one anyway
  14. ChallengeThen the worry returns
  15. Resolution'Lost' means lost in a fire
  16. ChallengeThree problems with the 'fire' reading
  17. ResolutionReading the ברייתא a new way: 'lost' is like 'hidden'
  18. ConclusionWhich version applies where
  19. ChallengeCould she collect twice using הינומא witnesses?
  20. ResolutionWhere there is no other way, we write a receipt
  21. QuestionWhat is the 'cup of good tidings'?
  22. Responseרב אדא בר אהבה: a cup of תרומה wine
  23. Challengeרב פפא: an אלמנה can also eat תרומה
  24. Resolutionרב פפא: she is 'first,' like תרומה
  25. Statementרבי יהודה: a barrel of wine is passed before her
  26. StatementSealed barrel for a virgin, open barrel for a non-virgin
  27. ChallengeWhy pass any barrel before a non-virgin?
  28. ResolutionThe open barrel stops a false claim
  29. StatementHow do we dance before the bride?