Kesubos 20a

כתובות כ׳ ע״א

Ketubot 20a

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Topic

Contradicting absent witnesses (תרי ותרי and בר שטיא), verifying signatures on a שטר, and a witness testifying from a written note or a reminder.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an argument that הכחשה, like הזמה, works only when the first witnesses are present, so the dead signers of a document cannot be contradicted. רב נחמן rejects this and rules that two witnesses against two cancel each other, so the money stays with its owner, just as in the case of בר שטיא, a man who was insane at times. In that case the property stays with בר שטיא, but only if he inherited it from his fathers. רבי אבהו rules that הזמה needs the witnesses' presence but הכחשה does not, and that a הזמה done in their absence still counts as a הכחשה. The גמרא then turns to verifying signatures on a שטר. רבי אסי allows only a שטר that was challenged and upheld in court as a sample, and the scholars of נהרדעא allow two כתובות or two field deeds held peacefully for three years. רב שימי בר אשי adds that the sample documents must come from someone else's possession, because a person cannot forge accurately from memory. Finally, a ברייתא lets a witness testify from his own written note years later. רב הונא and רבי יוחנן disagree about whether he must remember the event on his own, and the הלכה is that a fellow witness may remind him but the litigant himself may not.

Opening lines

The steps (24)

1. StatementContradiction only works in the witnesses' presence
2. Challengeרב נחמן: absent witnesses should be weaker, not stronger
3. Statementרב נחמן: two against two, money stays with its owner
4. StatementThe case of בר שטיא
5. Statementרב אשי: the property stays with בר שטיא
6. ConclusionOnly if he inherited the land from his fathers
7. Statementרבי אבהו: הזמה only in their presence, הכחשה even when they are absent
8. StatementA failed הזמה still counts as a הכחשה
9. StatementQuoting the ברייתא on checking witnesses' handwriting
10. ProofOnly a challenged שטר works, which supports רבי אסי
11. Statementרבי אסי's rule for verifying a שטר
12. StatementThe נהרדעי: two כתובות or two field deeds held for three years
13. Statementרב שימי בר אשי: sample documents must come from someone else
14. QuestionWhy not documents from his own possession? He might forge
15. ChallengeHe could forge from someone else's documents too
16. ResolutionHe cannot copy that accurately from memory
17. StatementA witness may testify from his own written record years later
18. Statementרב הונא: only if he remembers on his own
19. Statementרבי יוחנן: even if he does not remember
20. Statementרבה: one witness may remind the other
21. QuestionWhat if the litigant himself reminds the witness?
22. Responseרב חביבא: even the litigant himself may remind him
23. Responseמר בריה דרב אשי: not the litigant himself
24. ConclusionThe הלכה: the litigant may not remind the witness