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Kesubos 30a

כתובות ל׳ ע״א

Ketubot 30a

Learn Kesubos 30a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The קנס for forced relations: when קידושין takes effect, the נדה case, and whether death from Heaven exempts from payment

Overview

The amud opens by finishing the search for the practical difference between two views on which women receive the קנס. One view asks whether קידושין can take effect, and the other asks whether he may keep her as a wife. Following רבי ישבב, the first answer is women forbidden only by a positive מצוה, such as an Egyptian or Edomite convert. The גמרא then says that if רבי ישבב's rule is broad, even those cases produce a ממזר. So it gives a new case instead: a בעולה with a כהן גדול, because that עשה does not apply to everyone. רב חסדא then teaches that everyone agrees a man who forced a נדה pays the קנס, since she passes both tests. Next, the גמרא notes that the משנה rejects רבי נחוניא בן הקנה, who held that anyone liable to death from Heaven is exempt from payment. אביי learns that view from the word אסון, which appears in two פסוקים. רב אדא בר אהבה challenges that proof, and the גמרא begins asking how to sort cold and heat, and lions and thieves, between harm from Heaven and harm from people. That discussion continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

חַיָּיבֵי עֲשֵׂה, מִצְרִי וַאֲדוֹמִי.

Those forbidden by a positive מצוה: an Egyptian and an Edomite.

הָנִיחָא לְרַבִּי יְשֵׁבָב,

This works well according to רבי ישבב

אִי לְאַפּוֹקֵי מִטַּעְמָא דְּרַבִּי סִימַאי

if it is to reject the reasoning of רבי סימאי

קָאָתֵי — שַׁפִּיר.

that he comes, then fine.

The steps (14)

  1. ResponseThe difference is women forbidden by a positive מצוה
  2. ChallengeIf רבי ישבב states a broad rule, even positive-מצוה cases are included
  3. ResolutionThe difference is a non-virgin with a כהן גדול
  4. ChallengeWhy is the כהן גדול case different from other positive מצוות?
  5. ResolutionThis positive מצוה does not apply to everyone
  6. Statementרב חסדא: everyone agrees one who forced a נדה pays the fine
  7. StatementThe משנה rejects רבי נחוניא בן הקנה's view
  8. QuestionWhat is רבי נחוניא's source?
  9. Responseאביי: the word אסון links both kinds of death
  10. ChallengeMaybe יעקב meant harm from people
  11. Resolutionיעקב warned about every kind of danger
  12. ChallengeAre cold and heat really from Heaven?
  13. ChallengeAre lions and thieves really from people?
  14. QuestionHow can the death penalties not have stopped?