Kesubos 33b

כתובות ל״ג ע״ב

Ketubot 33b

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Topic

Lashes and payment together: the source that one pays and is not flogged, and ריש לקיש's view that our משנה follows רבי מאיר, who holds both apply.

Overview

The גמרא is trying to show that someone liable for both lashes and money pays and is not flogged. It first finishes testing the proof from the men who fight and hit a pregnant woman. רב סמא explains that court lashes, which have a limit, are lighter than death, so a warning for death still covers lashes. Then רב יעקב מנהר פקוד shows that this proof does not work for רבי. In the name of רבא, he brings a new source from the פסוק of one who strikes his fellow: the attacker was warned for death, yet the תורה makes him pay שבת and ריפוי. רב אשי's challenge that lashes may be worse than death is answered (his question whether a warning for a severe matter covers a lighter one gets no explicit answer), but רב מרי's challenge, that the פסוק may be about an accident, is left as a קשיא. ריש לקיש then gives a different answer: our משנה follows רבי מאיר, who holds a person is lashed and also pays. To defend this, the גמרא explains that a ברייתא where רבי מאיר seems to hold 'dies and pays' is about a thief whose agent slaughtered. That leads to the question of why the חכמים exempt the thief, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (22)

1. ChallengeMaybe lashes are worse than death
2. ResolutionLimited lashes versus unlimited beating
3. ChallengeThe proof only works for the רבנן, not for רבי
4. ProofNew source: the man who strikes his fellow
5. QuestionWhat is the case: was he warned?
6. ResponseHe was warned, yet the תורה says he pays
7. ChallengeDoes a warning for death count as a warning for lashes?
8. ChallengeMaybe lashes are worse than death
9. ResolutionCourt lashes have a limit
10. ChallengeMaybe the פסוק is about an accidental injury
11. Statementריש לקיש: our משנה follows רבי מאיר
12. ChallengeThen even his daughter should be included
13. ResolutionA possible defense: רבי מאיר holds lashes and pay, but not death and pay
14. ChallengeA ברייתא shows רבי מאיר makes a person pay even when liable to death
15. ResolutionThe ברייתא is about a thief whose slaughter was done by someone else
16. ChallengeHow can one person sin and another be liable?
17. Resolutionרבא: slaughter is like selling, which always involves another person
18. ResolutionTwo other sources: the words 'or' and 'instead of'
19. Challengeמר זוטרא asks how an agent can create liability the thief himself would not have
20. ResolutionThe thief is spared only because he gets the bigger punishment
21. ChallengeWhy do the רבנן exempt the thief in the agent case?
22. ResolutionThe גמרא begins by asking who these חכמים are