Kesubos 83b

כתובות פ״ג ע״ב

Ketubot 83b

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Topic

How far a husband's written waiver of his wife's property reaches: produce, produce of the produce, and inheritance.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a distinction between one who objects right away (עורר) and one who waits (עומד). אמימר rules that the land itself is acquired, and when רב אשי asks which case he means, אמימר says he does not accept the distinction at all. The גמרא then returns to the משנה about a husband who writes 'I have no דין ודברים in your property'. It asks why this is not read as giving up everything, or only the produce, or only the ירושה. אביי answers with יד בעל השטר על התחתונה, בוצינא טב מקרא, and the idea that people give up only uncommon things. רב אשי reads the same result from the word בנכסייך. Next, a ברייתא defines פירות and פירי פירות for רבי יהודה's view. The גמרא then asks which words, 'פירי פירות' or 'עד עולם' or both, are needed. A further question asks whether giving up only the פירי פירות also gives up the first produce; an 'obvious' proof is offered and then knocked down. Finally, רב rules like רבן שמעון בן גמליאל that the husband inherits, but not for his reason, and the גמרא begins explaining what he means, a discussion that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (31)

1. StatementObjecting right away versus waiting
2. Statementאמימר rules that the land itself is acquired
3. Questionרב אשי asks which case אמימר means
4. QuestionWhy does this question matter?
5. ResponseIt matters according to רב יוסף
6. Responseאמימר rejects the distinction
7. StatementBack to the משנה: why did he write it?
8. ChallengeWhy not say he gave up everything?
9. ResolutionA document is read in the narrowest way
10. ChallengeWhy not say he gave up only the produce?
11. ResolutionA cucumber now beats a gourd later
12. ChallengeWhy not say he gave up his inheritance?
13. ResolutionDeath is common, a sale is not
14. Resolutionרב אשי reads it from the wording
15. Statementרבי יהודה: he always eats the produce of the produce
16. QuestionWhat counts as produce and produce of produce?
17. ResponseProduce from her land versus produce from bought land
18. QuestionWhich words does רבי יהודה require?
19. ChallengeIf 'produce of produce' is enough, why say 'forever'?
20. Resolution'Produce of produce' already means 'forever'
21. ChallengeIf 'forever' is the key word, why mention 'produce of the produce'?
22. Resolution'Produce of the produce' teaches that without 'forever' it does not work
23. ChallengeIf both phrases are needed, why two phrases?
24. ResolutionWhy 'forever' is needed besides 'produce of the produce'
25. ResolutionWhy 'produce of the produce' is needed besides 'forever'
26. QuestionIf he gave up only the produce of the produce, may he eat the produce?
27. ResponseObviously he gave up everything, since produce of the produce comes from the produce
28. RejectionThe same question would hit רבי יהודה in the משנה
29. Statementרב rules like רבן שמעון בן גמליאל but not for his reason
30. QuestionWhat does 'not for his reason' mean?
31. ResponseFirst explanation: the husband's inheritance is rabbinic and strengthened