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Kesubos 84a

כתובות פ״ד ע״א

Ketubot 84a

Learn Kesubos 84a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Kesubos 84a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How to read רב's ruling on a husband's inheritance, and who collects a dead man's deposit, loan or produce

Overview

Earlier, רב said: 'The הלכה follows רבן שמעון בן גמליאל, but not for his reason,' about a husband who gives up his right to inherit his wife. The גמרא tries several readings of this statement. Each one is checked against רב's own ruling about אונאה and against his exact wording. In the reading the גמרא keeps, רב agrees that the husband still inherits. For רב, though, ירושת הבעל is only דרבנן, and the condition fails because the חכמים gave their laws the strength of Torah law. A challenge from רבי יוחנן בן ברוקא's משנה about returning a family graveyard is answered: there, רב was only explaining that תנא's view. Then a new משנה asks who gets a dead man's deposit, loan or loose produce when his wife, a creditor and his heirs all have claims. רבי טרפון says it goes to 'the weakest', and רבי עקיבא says it goes to the heirs, because there is no mercy in judgment. The גמרא explains why the משנה lists both a loan and a deposit, gives two meanings of 'the weakest', and explains why רבי עקיבא mentions only the surplus.

Opening lines

וְסָבַר רַב תְּנָאוֹ קַיָּים?

And does רב hold that his condition is valid?

וְהָא אִיתְּמַר:

But it was stated:

הָאוֹמֵר לַחֲבֵירוֹ

One who says to his fellow:

עַל מְנָת שֶׁאֵין לְךָ עָלַי אוֹנָאָה,

'On condition that you have no claim of overcharging against me,'

The steps (25)

  1. ChallengeDoes רב really hold that a condition against the Torah is valid?
  2. ResolutionSecond explanation: רב agrees the condition is void but disagrees about inheritance
  3. ChallengeThat explanation reverses רב's own words
  4. ResolutionThird explanation: same result, but רב voids even conditions against rabbinic law
  5. ChallengeIf רב only adds a detail, he fully agrees
  6. ResolutionSame result as רבן שמעון בן גמליאל, different reason
  7. ChallengeChallenge from רבי יוחנן בן ברוקא's משנה
  8. QuestionThe old puzzle: Torah law or rabbinic law?
  9. Responseרב explains: the husband returns a family graveyard
  10. ResponseWhat the husband deducts: his wife's grave
  11. ProofA ברייתא shows how seriously family graves are protected
  12. Resolutionרב was only explaining רבי יוחנן בן ברוקא's view
  13. StatementNew משנה: who gets a dead man's deposit or loan
  14. Statementרבי עקיבא: no mercy in judgment, the heirs get it
  15. StatementDetached produce goes to whoever grabs it first; רבי טרפון on the surplus
  16. Statementרבי עקיבא gives the surplus to the heirs
  17. QuestionWhy does the משנה mention both a loan and a deposit?
  18. ResponseIf only a loan were taught, רבי טרפון might agree about a deposit
  19. ResponseIf only a deposit were taught, רבי עקיבא might agree about a loan
  20. QuestionWhat does 'to the weakest' mean?
  21. Responseרבי יוסי ברבי חנינא: the one with the weakest proof
  22. Responseרבי יוחנן: the wife's כתובה, for the sake of favor
  23. ProofThe same argument already appears among the תנאים
  24. ChallengeWhy does רבי עקיבא mention only the surplus?
  25. ResolutionTrue, he only said 'surplus' to match רבי טרפון