Kesubos 85b

כתובות פ״ה ע״ב

Ketubot 85b

Learn Kesubos 85b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Kesubos 85b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Claims after a death (deposits and a gift 'to טוביה'), and forgiving a sold debt

Overview

This amud opens with the last words of an earlier discussion: a document that only looks false is not a concern. Then the גמרא tells three matching stories. In each, a man deposited a valuable item with someone who died without saying whose it was. Each judge, רבי אמי, רב נחמן and רבי אבא, gives the item to the claimant, because the dead man was known not to be wealthy and the claimant gave a סימן (identifying sign). Each time the גמרא adds that a סימן helps only if the claimant was not a regular visitor to that house. Next comes a man who left his property 'to טוביה.' The גמרא rules on who counts as that טוביה: a man titled רב, a close friend, and how to rank a תלמיד חכם, a neighbor and a relative. When the two are equal, the judges decide (שודא דדייני). Then רבא quotes רב חייא בר אבין: שמואל lets a seller of a שטר חוב forgive the debt, but agrees that a wife cannot forgive a note she brought into her marriage. The amud ends with a relative of רב נחמן who sold her כתובה, and רב נחמן asks whether anyone will advise her daughter. The advice comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (21)

1. ConclusionThe end of the earlier discussion: something that only looks false is not a concern
2. StatementA man deposits seven pearls with רבי מיאשא, who dies without instructions
3. Statementרבי אמי rules for the claimant: the dead man was not wealthy, and the claimant gave a sign
4. StatementLimit: the sign only works if the claimant did not regularly visit that house
5. StatementA second case: a silver cup deposited with חסא, who dies without instructions
6. Statementרב נחמן rules the same way: חסא was not wealthy, and the claimant gave a sign
7. StatementThe same limit applies: a regular visitor's sign proves nothing
8. StatementSilk left at רב דימי's house
9. Statementרבי אבא gives the silk to the claimant
10. StatementThe same limit applies to the silk case
11. Statement'My property to טוביה' and טוביה shows up
12. Statementרב טוביה is not plain 'טוביה'
13. StatementA close friend may be called without his title
14. StatementTwo people named טוביה: the תלמיד חכם comes first
15. QuestionNeighbor or relative: who comes first?
16. ResponseA פסוק: a close neighbor is better
17. ConclusionWhen both are equal, the judges decide
18. Statementרבא quotes שמואל's rule about forgiving a sold loan document
19. Statementשמואל agrees a wife cannot forgive a note she brought into the marriage
20. Statementרב נחמן's relative sold her כתובה, then was divorced and died
21. Statementרב נחמן asks if anyone will advise the daughter