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Kiddushin 32a

קידושין ל״ב ע״א

Learn Kiddushin 32a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The laws of כיבוד אב ואם: who pays, how far honor goes, correcting a parent, and giving up honor

Overview

The גמרא asks whose money pays when a son feeds and clothes his father. רב יהודה says the son pays, רב נתן בר אושעיא says the father pays, and the רבנן rule that the father pays. The גמרא tests this ruling with several sources: a גזירה שוה that honor must cost the son something (the answer is that he loses work time), a ברייתא about feeding a father מעשר עני, and רבי אליעזר's case of a father throwing a purse into the sea. Next comes the story of רב הונא, who tore silk in front of his son רבה to test him, and the questions about whether that was allowed. Then רב יהודה corrects his father רב יחזקאל's wording of a teaching about mixed groups of condemned people, and שמואל scolds him for speaking to his father that way. A ברייתא teaches that a son should correct his father gently, only by quoting a פסוק. אלעזר בן מתיא and איסי בן יהודה argue about whether a מצוה comes before a father's request, and the הלכה follows איסי בן יהודה. Finally, רב חסדא says a father can give up his honor but a רב cannot. רב יוסף disagrees, and רבא begins to challenge his proof; this continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

מִשֶּׁל מִי?

From whose [money]?

רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר: מִשֶּׁל בֵּן.

Rav Yehuda said: from the son's [money].

רַב נָתָן בַּר אוֹשַׁעְיָא אָמַר: מִשֶּׁל אָב.

Rav Natan bar Oshaya said: from the father's [money].

אוֹרוֹ לֵיהּ רַבָּנַן לְרַב יִרְמְיָה,

The Rabbis ruled for Rav Yirmeya,

The steps (35)

  1. QuestionWho pays for the father's food?
  2. ResponseTwo opinions: son's money or father's money
  3. ConclusionThe ruling: the father pays
  4. ChallengeHonor must cost the son money
  5. ResolutionThe son loses work time
  6. ProofA ברייתא about relatives sharing tithes
  7. ProofThe son would be paying his debt with the poor's food
  8. RejectionThe ברייתא is about extra help
  9. ChallengeWhy curse a son who only gives extra?
  10. ResolutionIt is still disrespectful
  11. Proofרבי אליעזר: the father throws a purse into the sea
  12. ChallengeIf it is the father's money, why would the son care?
  13. ResolutionThe son expects to inherit
  14. Statementרב הונא tears silk to test his son
  15. ChallengeIsn't the test a stumbling block?
  16. Resolutionרב הונא gave up his honor
  17. ChallengeIsn't tearing silk wasteful destruction?
  18. ResolutionHe tore it at the seam
  19. ChallengeThen the test proves nothing
  20. ResolutionHe did it while his son was already angry
  21. Statementרב יחזקאל teaches the law of mixed condemned groups
  22. Challengeרב יהודה questions the wording of his father's version
  23. Resolutionרב יהודה proposes flipping the wording
  24. Challengeרב יחזקאל objects from the חכמים' half
  25. ResolutionThe חכמים were just answering רבי שמעון
  26. Statementשמואל scolds רב יהודה for how he spoke to his father
  27. ProofA teaching on how to tell a father he did wrong
  28. ChallengeEven that wording would hurt the father
  29. ResolutionJust quote the verse
  30. Statementאלעזר בן מתיא: the מצוה comes before serving a father
  31. Statementאיסי בן יהודה: let others do the מצוה if they can
  32. ConclusionThe הלכה follows איסי בן יהודה
  33. StatementA father can give up his honor, a teacher cannot
  34. Statementרב יוסף: even a teacher can give up his honor
  35. Rejectionרבא‎: ה׳'s case is different