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Kiddushin 67a

קידושין ס״ז ע״א

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Topic

Which תנא the משנה follows on a child's lineage, and how the words "כל מקום" and "ואיזו זו" include or exclude cases not on its list.

Overview

The גמרא continues a challenge against the משנה's rule that wherever there is valid קידושין and no עבירה, the child follows the father. In רבי יוסי's view, a convert who marries a ממזרת does no wrong, yet the child is a ממזר. רבי יוחנן answers that the משנה follows רבי יהודה, who forbids that marriage, so the words "כל מקום" in the second clause include it. A second answer keeps the משנה like רבי יוסי and says the words "ואיזו זו" limit the first rule to the cases it lists. The גמרא then tests the list with more cases: a חלל who married a בת ישראל, an ישראל who married a חללה, the son of Egyptian converts, and רבין's report about converts from two nations. Each case is answered: by following רבי דוסתאי בן רבי יהודה, by the broad words "כל מקום", or by the limiting words "ואיזו זו". Finally the גמרא goes back and questions the רבי יוסי reading, showing how neatly every extra word fits if the משנה follows רבי יהודה.

Opening lines

גֵּר שֶׁנָּשָׂא מַמְזֶרֶת,

a convert who married a mamzeret,

דְּיֵשׁ קִידּוּשִׁין וְאֵין עֲבֵירָה –

where there is betrothal and there is no transgression,

הַוָּלָד הוֹלֵךְ אַחַר הַפָּגוּם,

yet the child follows the flawed parent,

דְּתַנְיָא: גֵּר שֶׁנָּשָׂא מַמְזֶרֶת –

as it is taught: a convert who married a mamzeret,

The steps (17)

  1. ChallengeA convert who married a ממזרת seems to break the משנה's rule
  2. ResolutionThe משנה follows רבי יהודה, not רבי יוסי
  3. ChallengeThen the משנה should have listed this case
  4. ResolutionThe words "כל מקום" in the סיפא include it
  5. ResolutionSecond answer: the משנה follows רבי יוסי, and "ואיזו זו" limits the rule
  6. ChallengeWhat about a חלל who married a בת ישראל?
  7. ResolutionThe משנה follows רבי דוסתאי בן רבי יהודה
  8. ChallengeAn Israelite who married a חללה is missing from the list
  9. ResolutionThe words 'any case' in the first clause include it
  10. ChallengeWhy not state it outright?
  11. ResolutionThe case does not fit into the list's sentence
  12. ChallengeThe son of Egyptian converts is also missing
  13. Resolution'Any case' includes the Egyptian case too
  14. ResolutionFor רב דימי, 'which is this' leaves the case out
  15. Challengeרבין's report about converts from two nations
  16. ResolutionThe words 'which case is this' exclude רבין's case
  17. ChallengeQuestioning the claim that the משנה follows רבי יוסי