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Kiddushin 80b

קידושין פ׳ ע״ב

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Topic

The end of the pecked-dough sugya, and the משנה and גמרא on the laws of יחוד (seclusion)

Overview

The עמוד opens by finishing a ברייתא about dough that chickens may have pecked after drinking טמא liquid. רבי יהושע בן לוי and רבי יוחנן then argue over which liquids leave the dough in doubt. A new משנה begins on יחוד: a man may not be alone with two women, but one woman may be alone with two men. רבי שמעון permits it when the man's wife is with him, and there are special rules for a mother and a daughter. The גמרא explains the reason for the rule and finds a hint for יחוד in the פסוק about a מסית, 'your brother, the son of your mother.' It then discusses whether אבא שאול disagrees with the משנה, and the argument over whether mourning breaks a person's יצר. Finally רב limits the היתר of two men to decent men, and the גמרא brings proofs. The last proof, from the סוטה escorts, is being rejected, and that answer continues on the next עמוד.

Opening lines

נִקּוּרִים נִקּוּרִים בָּעִיסָּה –

If there are peck marks in the dough —

תּוֹלִין, לֹא אוֹכְלִין וְלֹא שׂוֹרְפִין.

it is held in doubt; it is not eaten and it is not burned.

אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי:

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said:

לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא בְּמַשְׁקִים לְבָנִים,

They taught this only with white liquids,

The steps (25)

  1. ProofPecked dough stays in doubt
  2. StatementOnly white liquids leave doubt
  3. ChallengeMaybe the dough soaked it up
  4. ResolutionClear versus murky liquids
  5. StatementBasic rule of seclusion
  6. StatementWhen his wife is with him
  7. StatementMother and daughter
  8. QuestionWhy is the rule different for men and women?
  9. ResponseBecause women are more easily swayed
  10. QuestionWhere does the Torah hint at יחוד?
  11. ResponseThe hint: 'your brother, the son of your mother'
  12. ProofHow the פסוק teaches about יחוד
  13. QuestionWhat does the פסוק mean in its own setting?
  14. Responseאביי: even a friendly brother must not be listened to
  15. ChallengeDoes our משנה go against אבא שאול?
  16. ResolutionMourning breaks a person's desire
  17. ProofThe רבנן follow רבי יצחק: the יצר is strong even in mourning
  18. QuestionHow does אבא שאול read that פסוק?
  19. ResponseThe פסוק is about complaining against ה׳
  20. ProofThe story of the woman who sinned while mourning
  21. Statementרב limits the rule to decent men
  22. ProofA story where ten men sinned together
  23. Proofרב יוסף: groups can sin without shame
  24. ProofA suggested proof from the סוטה escorts
  25. RejectionTorah scholars are different because they know