Menachos 105a

מנחות ק״ה ע״א

Menachot 105a

Learn Menachos 105a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 105a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

רבי יהודה's reason for מנחת סולת, רב פפא's question about 'מיני מנחה,' and who taught 'bring all five'

Overview

Before this amud, the גמרא suggested that for רבי יהודה, someone who vows a plain מנחה brings מנחת סולת because the פסוק lists it first. The גמרא challenges this from a משנה: a plain עולה vow needs only a lamb, not the bull that comes first in the פסוק, and רבי יהודה does not argue. So the גמרא gives a new reason: מנחת סולת is the one called just 'מנחה,' with no added name. The 'opens first' wording is only a memory sign. Next, רב פפא asks whether a vow of 'מיני מנחה,' which mixes plural and singular, means one מנחה or two. Proofs from the משנה and from a ברייתא are each pushed aside, the second because the ברייתא may follow רבי שמעון, who allows one מנחה of half loaves and half wafers. Finally the גמרא asks who taught that someone who forgot which מנחה he specified brings all five. רבי ירמיה says it cannot be רבי שמעון, because his view would create fourteen possibilities. אביי answers that it can be רבי שמעון, since he allows bringing an offering with a condition. אביי begins to prove this from a ברייתא about a doubtful מצורע, and the proof continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. ChallengeIf so, the first-mentioned animal should always be required
2. ChallengeThe משנה says a plain עולה vow is fulfilled with a lamb
3. ResolutionA new meaning for 'the most notable meal offering': it has no added name
4. ChallengeBut רבי יהודה himself gives the 'opens first' reason
5. ResolutionReading the teaching as one connected sentence
6. ChallengeWhy point it out? He already named the fine-flour offering
7. ResolutionIt is just a memory sign
8. Questionרב פפא asks about the vow 'types of a meal offering'
9. QuestionFirst side: 'types' means two meal offerings
10. QuestionSecond side: 'meal offering' means only one
11. ProofAttempted proof from the first clause of the משנה
12. RejectionThe later clause implies the opposite
13. ConclusionNo proof can be drawn from this משנה
14. ProofA ברייתא seems to show that 'מיני מנחה' means one
15. RejectionMaybe the ברייתא implies two offerings from two types
16. ChallengeThe full ברייתא already covers two types, so 'מיני מנחה' must mean one
17. RejectionThe ברייתא may follow רבי שמעון, who allows one מנחה with two kinds
18. RejectionFor the רבנן, two types means two separate offerings
19. QuestionWho taught the rule of bringing all five
20. ResponseThis rule cannot follow רבי שמעון
21. ResponseEven counting ten items, there would be fourteen possibilities
22. Rejectionאביי: The משנה can follow רבי שמעון after all
23. ProofProof from a ברייתא about a doubtful מצורע