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Menachos 105b

מנחות ק״ה ע״ב

Menachot 105b

Learn Menachos 105b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 105b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Whether the משנה about a forgotten מנחה vow can follow רבי שמעון, who allows bringing a קרבן with a condition, and how his half-and-half offering works

Overview

This amud finishes quoting רבי שמעון's case of a person who is not sure he is a מצורע. He brings one animal with a condition: if he is a מצורע it is his אשם, and if not it is a שלמי נדבה. The animal follows the strict rules of both offerings, so its meat is eaten for only one day and a night. The גמרא uses this case to show that the משנה about a forgotten מנחה vow can follow רבי שמעון, who allows a condition on a קרבן. It brings up an answer from מסכת זבחים: רבי שמעון allows such a condition from the start only to help a person become טהור. The גמרא replies that this limit applies only to שלמים, where the condition shortens the eating time, while with מנחות a condition is fine even from the start. רב פפא then asks how רבי שמעון's half-and-half offering can work, since each offering would come from two separate עשרונות and לוגין, and אביי answers that רבי שמעון holds this is valid. The גמרא explains how the person sets conditions on his handfuls (קמיצה), and then begins a new challenge that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

עִמּוֹ, וְאוֹמֵר:

with it, and says:

אִם מְצוֹרָע הוּא –

If he is a leper —

זֶהוּ אֲשָׁמוֹ וְזֶה לוּגּוֹ,

this is his guilt offering and this is his log,

וְאִם לָאו –

and if not —

The steps (10)

  1. ProofThe condition the doubtful מצורע makes
  2. ProofThe doubtful animal follows the strict rules of both offerings
  3. RejectionMentioning an answer given in מסכת זבחים
  4. Rejectionרבי שמעון allowed it only to help a person
  5. RejectionShortening eating time is a problem for שלמים, not for מנחות
  6. Challengeרב פפא: Half and half means one tenth made from two tenths
  7. Resolutionרבי שמעון holds that one tenth from two tenths is valid
  8. QuestionHow is the handful taken from a mixed offering?
  9. ResponseHe sets conditions for every possible vow
  10. ChallengeA mixed offering needs one handful taken from the loaves