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Menachos 108b

מנחות ק״ח ע״ב

Menachot 108b

Learn Menachos 108b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 108b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Using the money of blemished animals to buy replacement offerings, and which animal is holy when a person consecrates 'one of my animals' without naming it.

Overview

The גמרא first explains why the money of one blemished bull ('this bull') may buy two bulls, even though someone who promised 'a bull worth a מנה' may not bring two cheaper ones. It then explains that רבי forbids bringing one bull for two because it is like promising a large animal and bringing a small one. The גמרא shows that רבי really argues on every case in that משנה. A ברייתא about buying two rams with a bull's money shows that the חכמים allow switching species. The גמרא resolves contradictions about this by saying that two תנאים report the views of the חכמים and of רבי differently. רב then limits the rule of buying two bulls: it does not apply if the person said 'this bull and its value are upon me.' A new משנה teaches which animal is holy when someone says 'one of my animals is הקדש.' The גמרא discusses whether 'a bull among my bulls' means the largest, defends that reading against challenges, and ends with a new challenge from a sale of 'a house among my houses' that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

גְּמָ׳

GEMARA:

וְהָא אָמְרַתְּ רֵישָׁא:

But didn't you say in the first clause:

״שׁוֹר בְּמָנֶה״ וְהֵבִיא שְׁנַיִם בְּמָנֶה

'A bull worth a hundred dinars,' and he brought two worth a hundred dinars together,

לֹא יָצָא.

he has not fulfilled his obligation.

The steps (31)

  1. ChallengeChallenge from the earlier rule about a bull worth a מנה
  2. ResolutionA specific bull that became blemished is different
  3. QuestionWhy does רבי forbid bringing one bull for two?
  4. ResponseIt is like promising a big animal and bringing a small one
  5. ChallengeWhy doesn't רבי also argue on the first case?
  6. Resolutionרבי argues on everything, but waited for the חכמים to finish
  7. ProofProof from the ram and the lamb
  8. QuestionSwitching from one species to another
  9. ProofA ברייתא shows the חכמים allow switching a bull for rams
  10. ChallengeWhy does the ברייתא need two rams?
  11. ResolutionTwo תנאים disagree about the view of the חכמים
  12. StatementReading an implication from רבי's reason
  13. ChallengeA משנה where רבי forbids a simple swap of ram and lamb
  14. ResolutionTwo תנאים disagree about רבי's view
  15. StatementWith unblemished animals, bringing a bigger animal counts, following the חכמים
  16. Statementרב limits the rule of buying two bulls
  17. ChallengeMaybe 'upon me' only means 'I will bring this one'
  18. Resolutionרב's rule stated in a revised form
  19. Statementמשנה: which animal is holy when one says 'one of my animals'
  20. ChallengeGenerous or stingy? The two cases seem to clash
  21. Resolutionשמואל: we also worry about the middle animal
  22. QuestionWhat should the owner actually do?
  23. ResponseWait for a blemish and move the holiness to the large animal
  24. Statement'A bull among my bulls' means the largest
  25. ChallengeChallenge from עולא's case of selling a house
  26. ResolutionNo, it means the best of the houses
  27. ChallengeA ברייתא seems to treat all the bulls as doubtful
  28. ResolutionThe doubt about all the bulls is only in the mixed-up case
  29. ChallengeBut the ברייתא says 'and similarly'
  30. Resolution'Similarly' only refers to the largest being holy
  31. ChallengeSelling 'a house among my houses' lets him give the fallen one